Very Pushy Parents

[pinklink]

My other half is a teacher, a good one too. He is always marking planning and works late doing after school additional lessons. Since leaving the local comprehensive he joined a private school in September. He has been told on a few occasions by parents that they "pay his salary". His view is that he would rather go back to the comp and deal with difficult children who can change, but are initially the way they are due to challenging home environments. He said nothing can be done to solve the problem of difficult parents. He has had parents scream at him because their dc was moved down one set. His words were "they do more damage by pushing us constantly, it's tiring, degrading and when that happens I feel worthless. I struggle to put together a decent lesson after things like this happen."

He also felt that parents in the comp respected teachers but in the private school they see it as customer service where they buy the product.

I have a dd who I put through a private school, I let the school make the decisions with what group she would be in, I never interfered.

I struggle to empathasise with those, who I am sure are on here too, think they know their child's ability in the subject better than the professionals.

My other half is now thinking of resigning, but feels guilty knowing the school as do many other schools, struggle to find maths teachers.

Leave the teachers alone folks. Let them do what they need to.

3kidsandme:

Locally, for secondary, with 1 exception, all the private schools are less good than the local state schools (the only private school to get better results than my DC's comprehensive is an internationally-known single sex school, and even that doesn't come top of the local comparison tables) - except if you are wanting to compete in rugby or cricket and can't be bothered to / are unable to organise for your child to attend one of the very high quality community clubs.

However, that isn't the case everywhere - it has to be a school by school, not sector by sector comparison.

(A child from my class was moved from state to private because 'if we pay then the school will stop expecting us to be involved with what our child is doing - we will just pay and they will do it all' - disengaged and pushy parents in both sectors)

Happy,

One of the reasons I teach primary is because the opportunity to go a little 'off piste' is much more frequent, because so much can be taught in a cross-curricular way...with a few extras wedged in here and there.....

[Feels a little guily, but not much, about the short excuirsion into Latin last week]

Teacher that is exactly what I was told more freedom to go 'off piste' in a primary setting virtually none in secondary. Put me off teaching completely.

We're actually not encouraged to be overly interfering. I suspect from a teachers point of view it's easier. Who wants parents endlessly ring and sending emails concerned about which set their DS is in or the mark he received in last weeks physics test. This is not to say that the boys are unaware of parental expectation which in most cases in very very high.
I suspect many like me take the view "we pay and they do it all". There is of course a difference between letting the school do it all and being disinterested. Let's face it how involved can you be when you see you child once every two to three weeks, you not going to supervise prep every nigh. Obviously those from abroad see them even less frequently than that so they definitely can't be very involved but they're certainly not disinterested. I always say boarding is not right for parents who feel they've got to micro manage their DC's every waking moment.

There are some very pushy parents at my dcs' private school some always loopily complaining about their child not getting enough house points and other trivia. Ime, the school is brilliant at managing them and keeping them at arm's length. I've found both private and state brilliant at addressing genuine concerns.

I am amazed that anyone can seriously think state schools are better or provide better teaching.

I am amazed that anyone can lump thousands of schools together and dismiss them in a single sentence.

Amber, it's easy, watch " I am amazed that anyone can seriously think state schools are better or provide better teaching." I also believe it to be true.
I know that some Guardian reading socialists persuade themselves otherwise and that is fine by me.

50% of British parents would pay school fees if they could afford it but only 6% can afford it and pay. The other half are content with state schools.

Greengrow - good point.
It is irrelevant how many parents use state schools because they have to.
What is a more useful statistic is how many would use indie if they could, and how many use nearest state comp (not selective, not faith) even thought they could easily afford indie - if there are any.

I don't read The Guardian that regularly and know many state schools are better than many private schools.Sorry. 2 of our local private schools are shocking hence the mass exodus.

I'm sure there are many private schools better than state.

Anybody saying all private schools are better than state schools are hugely deluded.

3kids,

I have just sorted the A level results of every local school on the DfE website in any number of the ways available.

Local non-selective, non-faith comp beats all but a single international name of the [selective] independents on every single measure - probably most importantly on value added, so on the progress that pupils actually make, but also on points per pupil, points per pupil for academic subjects only, etc etc.

Same picture for GCSEs, though (in the interests of full transparency) there is 1 slightly obscure way to sort the data that shows 1 of the independent schools 1 place above the non-selective, non-faith comp.

I am not a socialist, by any means, but I do know a little about education, and in my local area, private schools aare not better, and do not provide better teaching.

"how many use nearest state comp (not selective, not faith) even though they could easily afford indie".

Indie would be a stretch for us, but not impossible - but we choose not to pay for a wiorse quality product!

Both our local state comps have better exam results than at least 3 of the privates I know.

The 3 grammars wipe the floor with all of them.

I wouldn't bother unless it was the top 10% of private schools but then I'm pretty sure the top 10% of state schools would be pretty desirable too.

teacher most comprehensives of the type you describe are very desirable and therefore have small, predominantly MC catchment areas. I am also not sure how value added is assessed for private schools who don't do formal assessments for the entry data to be available. However it is clear that the best state schools have excellent teaching even if the teachers are more constrained by funding and time.

Summerends, I won't disagree with you - I was just refuting
'I am amazed that anyone can seriously think state schools are better or provide better teaching.'

It depends entirely on the schools concerned, not on the sector. Local comps are unusually good, local privates very mediocre (unless you are a rugby player).

(Oh, and progress / added value was A-level, so GCSE to A-level. I know that the Y7 to GCSE results aren't reliable for private schools)

I know that the Y7 to GCSE results aren't reliable for private schools

Sincere question, why is that?

It will depend where you are in the country. In Newcastle my brother old school ( private) is better bay a long way than any school in the City in the state sector. In this bit of London with access to schools like North London Collegiate, St Paul's and the like the private schools are the best there are in the UK.

However I agree some areas of the UK do not have academic private schools, but even the non academic ones can be better for some children than the local state schools.

I have certainly been very happy to pay for the schools I have had the children at over the years. The comp 5 minutes from house gets 34% of pupils with 5 good GCSEs. It would be hard to find a private school around here even those who take children with the lowest of IQs which does as badly.

Toomany,

The starting point for 'measured progress' for state secondaries is KS2 SATs results - so a child who gets e.g. level 4 at KS2 is expected to get a certain legvel at GCSE. If they get more, more added value. f they get less, less added value.

Private primary / prep schools don't do KS2 SATs, so the measurement isn't possible.

Greengrow / Xenia, I think we have finally found a point of agreement - that there are good and bad in both sectors.

I would agree that there are some poor comps (though of course it depends on the starting point of the children - for a school where 100% of children arrived at Level 4, 34% would indeed be appalling. If 90% arrive at level 2 or 3 - the usual level at the end of Year 2 - as one school I know of has to face, 34% would actually represent statistically astonishing progress.). There are also some very poor private schools - given that all of those locally are 'selective', amnd all actively 'manage out' all children with SEN, their results are appalling too.

So 3kidsandme, are you saying that you believe every private school is better than every state school? On what evidence?

They not only can't report progress but the underlying data isn't correct. My DS's school is showing 0% reached at GCSE for English and Maths! The reality is somewhat different!

"Value added was A level, so A level to GCSE"
I think when it comes to the very selective/super selective in the independent sector most parents are not interested in value added their interested in A level results and their equivalents/Uni destinations. The former only because it confirms their view on how selective the school is but ultimately it's the latter that really interests people. Many in the independent sector have according to their websites quite impressive results but only only 3-4 going to Oxbridge et al.
Value adds is also such a crude tool it only measures academic improvement it doesn't tell you that your previously unmusical child has developed a passion for opera or fallen in love with Byzantine art neither does it measure unexpected sporting successes. Measuring systems are fairly obviously only measuring the measurable but I would like to hope that education is so much more than value added scores/league tables.

"These parents, who are in the minority seem to think they are buying a product and this is what he is dissatisfied with"

They are buying a product.