Why do some parents think private school at primary is a waste of money.... but are secretly saving for secondary?

[Tallandgracefulmum]

AIBU as my little one is starting prep school in Sept. I was asked by a friend at DD's nursery my plans, said private all the way and was told I would be wasting my money and should save it for secondary when it matters.

I hate this ..most parents I know would send kids private all the way through but cannot afford it so are saving for secondary. But to be honets if your not used to paying shed loads monthly for schooling, you will not suddently 7 years later ( and higher fees) start doing it for secondary.

What some people don't seem to get is that some parents value educational experience over material possessions or fancy homes. This friend in question said she will use the money she saves to provide education experiences for her children and give them a lump sum for uni.

My thoughts are she just can't afford it and wants to make me feel bad for spending my hard earned money.

How many parents actually compare a range of private school fees, then calculate how much it would cost to send one child then save the relevant monthly amount ready to give each off spring at 18? Doesn't happen. What's wrong in providing the best educational experience you can afford for your kids without others constantly telling me I am wasting my money.

FWIW I can understand private school bashers who hate all forms of private schooling, but not those who bash primary but would send kids to secondary in a heartbeat!

Gobb, paying does not make it more valuable, but if one decided that it is to them, then how can that ever be a waste. What if the school was chosen because they have onsite medical assistance, or sporting prowess, traditional of getting kids into particular senior school, is a through school till 18, is across the road from home and nearest state school is a bus ride away and have to be at work a particular time, or it boarding and work abroad or late often, or it is has a particular ethos, is the religion you require, or is ethnically diverse for your mixed kids?

Not everyone chooses schools for straight A's and academics. But even the mediocre private schools i.e some non selective schools that may not achieve the same results as some state or other independent schools are still better value for parents who chose them over academic selective schools. Just like some parents choosing satisfactory schools over the outstanding state schools parents trample other to get kids into.

Yes, some grammars just offer academics, some parents are after more that this.

Sorry - your last post just doesn't make sense.

In my post, I pointed out that some of your earlier blanket assertions are just factually incorrect. That's all

I clearly did not say that all parents should or should not value one type of eduction over another - as you did.

So I'm rather unsure as to why your lecturing meabout parents choosing a certain school for particular reasons.

And, finally, it's a bit bad form to look at other's payslips.

funnyossity , thank you for your post. I do as well. I do get days thinking, my friends think I am mad, as do others, am I mad, when I have a great school offering locally am I wasting my money? Then I think of how my sibling and I could have turned out had my parents DM in particular did not place such high value on education and make tough and hard sacrifices that nearly broke the marriage.

All I am doing is cutting out a few of my own extras to comfortably do so, I do understand your worries though, as parents we all have them.

I may be one of the few privately educated parents who came from nothing I mean South London Council estate, and uneducated by low wage working family who was educated privately through hard graft and major sacrifices and is now educating privately as I have feel of backtracking/backsliding, rather than its the done thing to do as its always been done.

I went to a mediocre private school because the fees were cheaper, and I had to get good grades, we all had to and we did. What I was trying to say earlier was, I knew people that went to brilliant grammars in Kent which got better results than my school, yet more kids from my school went on to the better universities and got better jobs.

Gobb, ok, i got your post wrong then, it's 2 am in the morning.

Anyway, my mum was a cleaner, the bins the tables, etc, law firms haw not changed the set up from 15 years ago to now. Even in my office, people leave money around, print off bank statements and forget to collect them at the printer etc. Not hard to see stuff if it is left lying around, she was not a snooper, just had to do her job. She used to say many lawyers left such stuff out on purpose to show off as they know the cleaners started coming from 7pm and could have cleared their desks of such personal items.

as I have feel of backtracking/backsliding

Ah - I think that, very justifiably, explains your views. I think pretty much everyone wants to at least provide their children with the same opportunities they had.

Right - must sleep!

OK.

If someone said 'private all the way' and I would have wanted to consider that but couldn't afford it I might respond like your friends if I had chosen private secondary later rather than private prep now.

When you say 'private all the way' you are possibly giving the impression that all private schools are inherently better than any state school (which is not the case).

I think you may find that if asked about plans an answer such as 'We are starting with St Josephs as we think that will suit our DC best' may elicit a better response. Then you aren't implying anything about the other parents choice.

(I also do this with our secondary school. There is nothing at all wrong with the other one in town, but for my particular DC I have a strong preference for ours).

I was privately educated, and have not chosen the same for my DCs. This way I don't need to work and am around to support their education, and we have some excellent state options. Money saved can be spent on better holidays, tutoring if needed etc.
Whereas I have friends who privately educate, who have never taken their children abroad. And I don't even think they are getting a better education

You say you chose the prep because it suits your eldest DC best of all the local schools, but then go on to say that all your DC will go there. What's to say that school will suit them all best? My DCs went to different schools because they are very different people, with different temperament and skills.
My DH went to private school all the way due to awful local school provision, I went to comps all the way. You have the means to be able to choose the most suitable school for each of your DC and your choice can include private schooling.
Don't assume that because a school suits one, it'll suit them all, but I don't think you're wasting your money if you can afford it and it's the right school for your DC.

If we can get back to the original question, I think there is a good case for going private at primary and state at secondary, as long as you can find a good comp or, if appropriate, grammar school. The habits and attitudes formed early on are, IMHO, critical to what goes on later. There are a notable number of academically focused comprehensives delivering rather better results than a section of the private sector that is obsessed with everything but academics. I'd pick a grammar over an average private sector in a heartbeat, unless there were particular resources in e.g. music. If I was forced to make a choice for funding between primary or secondary, it would be primary. More recently you have to take into account discrimination at university entrance against the private sector. The whole collection of issues raised here about what friends/relatives do or think seems to be to be totally spurious to the issue at hand. I have friends and work colleagues who run the entire gamut from outright hostility to private medicine and education through to putting their entire brood through at all levels. I think what is best depends on what kind of kids you've got, what the local schools are like as well as our finances - I'd advise doing what YOU think is best for YOUR kids and ignore everybody else, save perhaps for collecting experiences and advice about particular schools and heads! Personally I think the idea that one should save for secondary on the grounds that that is when it really "matters", is rather dubious.

for "our finances" read "your finances". Must use preview more. And read.

It's cost/benefit. Our local state primary is good-ish and our state secondary is horrendous. So we are putting money aside for their secondary education to be private and, if we move house to an area with a better state secondary, will use that money for their further education, instead.

I think most state primaries are OK, which is why most parents do this. Many secondaries are not an acceptable standard.

And yes, I'm grateful we will have a lot more cash around whilst they are at primary. I will spend it all on booze and fags and holidays to Spain

OP we've paid on and off since reception but continuously since yr 2 to make things even worse we've paid for boarding since yr 2. Over the years loads of acquaintances, friends work colleagues and strangers have criticised our choice to pay most of course are not paying themselves or are paying but not paying for boarding. Some people are surprisingly aggressive. Ive come to the conclusion it's partly human nature to criticise other parents choices, if you don't agree with what they are doing, before my DS's went to school I was criticised for being a slack parent, for not waving flash cards around, for binning prep for 2 year olds, allowing my DS's to climb trees, or even go up a slide the wrong way! Many parents simply believe that they know best and feel threatened by people who do things differently.
I am a recovered horse addict, horse ownership, other owners and all the hangers on associated with it is positively stuffed with know alls, keen to tell you where your going wrong, I found the best thing is to listen politely to what people say (for a while) because just occasionally in amongst the crap people talk are some valid points often coming from people who you think know very little or have a completely different outlook to you, store these useful tips/advice so that you can use them as you see fit but then get on with your life/parenting/horse ownership etc.
So with this in mind I personally wouldn't pay till yr 2/3 because I don't believe there is any need too especially if I had good state options but them I'm not in London where competition for prep school places is I understand fierce.

OP, the decision to send your DC to private school will always cause some people consternation. Always.

Our DC and their education, are close to most parents hearts and all sorts of value systmes are contained within the route we take.

The fact that you have heard someone say the prep you have chosen is just the start !!!

Over the years, you will hear;

You're wasting your money.
You're buying priviledge.
You must be arrogant to think your DC deserve better.
You must have no faith in your DC and think they need extra help.
You don;t want to catch thick.
You have thick DC who wouldn't cut it in state school.
Your DC won't get better results.
Your DC will get better results and that's all you care about.
Your DC's results don't count as much as state schooled DC.
Your DC will be drug fueled anorexics.
Your DC will live in a bubble.
Your DC will feel forever forced to drive themselves to achieve.
Your DC will crash and burn...

Just smile and nod!

You want other people to not be negative about your education choices but you then come out with this little gem...

As good as the grammars are, they take the best of the best students, but still cannot compare even to mediocre private schools.

Judgy much?!

word is right just to add into the things people have said to us:
You don't love your children then?
Your children don't love you?
Your children will emerge dysfunctional sociopaths unable to form meaningful relationships!
Don't you know how damaging boarding is?
I suppose your DS's are used to the cold as they are at boarding school (in the south east not the arctic).
Your DS's are pretty normal aren't they? (Slightly disappointed tone)
Wouldn't you rather spend on the money on a car, bigger house, expensive holiday (I don't have that much holiday a year) boat (why) second home something more meaningful?
The weird thing is that other horse owners aside I don't think people would make such rude comments about other aspects of our lives. I've also found that friends and acquaintances from other countries e.g. India, Malaysia, China and even Eastern Europe and interestingly friends who genuinely have no money have absolutely no problem with us spending most of our earned money on fees. In fact those who have no money frequently say they would do the same thing if they could afford too.

My parents sent us to state primary and private secondary although they could easily have sent us to private primary if they had wanted to. My secondary school had a 'junior house' where about half the girls came from. I get the impression it was a very nice junior school but I don't think I lost out in any way by not going there (or an equivalent).

We sent our children to the local primary and were generally fairly happy with it. Friends who sent their children to the local prep seemed happy with that too, but apart from some good wrap around care and a very silly uniform there didn't seem to be a vast difference to me. I didn't feel that our friends were wasting money or we were saving it, just making different choices. We would have been looking at the same private secondary schools if we hadn't moved from the area.

Financially I suspect that the most cost effective choice is state primary, private 11-16 and state sixth form college (or grammar school 11-18 if available and your child gets in). In my experience even areas with very bad state secondary schools have perfectly decent primary schools, and I think this is because younger children generally want to please teachers and are happy to learn. The older children get the less some of them enjoy school and the more disruptive they can be. Being a 'swot' becomes a problem and even bright children start to opt out or find it hard to study in a bad atmosphere. By sixth form everything has become segregated enough that it's much less of an issue, and at this age disruptiveness may increase in private schools as parents may not allow their children to leave for more vocational options (my experience at this age was of more disruption in a very expensive boarding school then my moderately costing private day school).

So from the point of view of buying educational advantage then yes private primary may well not be cost effective. I can totally see why the OP feels it is incredibly important to her, because she was brought up to believe that it is something you should sacrifice for and that brings great dividends. However the alternative opinion is totally valid too.

Op,I'm not sure parents do think that private primary is a waste of money. I do think as daddy pig already said, the cost / benefit of education is a huge factor, and that generally, if parents can afford to private educate, they will do so when the alternatives are poorest and the benefit is greatest , i.e. Secondary.
I also think that this is really a first world problem and that as the option of private education is not feasible for 90% of families!

Given the local schools particular to my area, state primary and private secondary is a popular option. For a lot of children and in a lot of respects the state primaries are as good if not better than the private.

I think the fact that half the scholarships at the state secondaries are given to state school pupils shows that academically at least the state schools are on a par.

In our family I will happily admit it is a case of sending them to state primary as yes, then we can pay off our mortgage and therefore have more money available if private secondary seems to suit them best. Which looking at our (lack of) state secondary options seems fairly likely.

We could afford private for both but then we'd both have to work full time. Because we value our children's education, we think it's better to be there for them after school, support homework, listen to them reading, encourage them to do piano practice (or whatever it ends up being - DS only 5!) etc.

And no we're not totting up the exact amount of private school fees to give to DC at a later date, but yes we do hope to be in a position to help them with university costs and a deposit for a house etc. We're not frittering our money on clothes and holidays, we're not the sort of people who'd want to. Books for the DCs maybe

I do think it's rude of people to question your choices - but equally you should not be questioning theirs. Very rude to suggest people who choose state schools don't value their children's education.

Not read whole thread but first dozen or so posts

There are parents who believe state education is better than private (e.g. their child will learn to mix with a wide variety of children from different backgrounds). I find them fine - they generally don't proselytise

There are financially comfortable parents who can afford fees but who strongly believe that independent schools are unethical conferring unfair advantage, so opt to stay in state education. Tbh these parents are fine too - don't tend to proselytise

And then there are parents who can't afford the fees but do believe their child would benefit, but money constraints mean that they are frustrated in their ambitions. It is these parents who tend to make snippy remarks and belittle your decision to use the independent sector. It's best not to bring up the subject of schools with them - and if they bring it up and make provocative remarks just reply with "my child, my business!" Or some other statement which signals that you are not prepared to discuss it

OP, you are really not coming across well. Very snobby and judgemental in fact.

Some children don't need private primary. Mine didn't. We were in catchment for an outstanding state primary, why on earth would we waste money on a private primary education? They thrived there and are towards the top of their private secondary in terms of achievement.
I remember hearing a friend saying she was moving her DS to private in Y1 because he had "spent all his time making sock puppets and still can't read" said in a very scathing tone. I thought to myself "Well, DS2 spent all his time doing fun stuff and learnt to read last year."

Different schools suit different children. You might want to think about that before throwing around comments about how you value education more than X, Y or Z.

As an ex-uni admissions tutor, I'd say clever, motivated kids with supportive families will probably shine wherever they go to school. If you are a supportive parent with a clever motivated child and reasonably good state schools, then yes I think you are probably wasting your money. No,that wasn't the original question, but it is a reply to your comment about grammar schools not being a patch on mediocre public schools. Rubbish!

People do get very judgy about educational choices. We HE and friends, acquaintances and complete randoms on the street have an opinion on it! I just smile and nod and keep repeating "Every family's different, this is what works for us."

Is your friend worried that she won't see you so much now - you mentioned not going on the regular mum's night out? Were your dc going to be at the same school? People rarely care THAT much about your choices unless it directly affects them.

You do need to develop a thicker skin, I am afraid! People will always question the choices you make but then, you are not making then for anyone except you and yours, so what does it matter?

I had to learn the same when I had an acquaintance say to me when she was talking about educating privately 'well if you had the money, you would, wouldn't you!'

I got irritated because, on investigating the state schools, I saw they offered everything I wanted schools to offer. I know my kids will get an outstanding education in the state sector round here. She made assumptions about me, what we would/could afford and the choices we would make.

So I learned that thick skin is the way to go and the choices you make are not the same as the choices others make for equally valid reasons of their own.

I think somewhere you may have issues about your background. Is this your way of establishing a pure MC background for your kids. How was it for you at private school living on a council estate. Did you feel properly blended in with all the kids of doctors, lawyers, bankers etc or did you feel a touch alienated and not quite belonging? I accept I may be totally wrong here but sometimes the things that drive us the most are deep-seated and derive from our upbringing

We all have our reasons for doing things and if friends bring up the subject of schools move the conversation along. Respect each others decisions and refrain from using spurious arguments to justify your position and then people will have no objection to what you do

OP, I think your choices are absolutely valid.
I also think your friends are valid too. It's all so individual, that it is very hard to judge. And neither of you should judge. If you want to stay friends.

The issue here isn't what you each choose for children's education, but tact, forebearance, and mutual respect.

Be secure in your own choice and leave it alone.