Would you spend everything you had to educate your children privately or settle for a perfectly OK state school (at secondary level)?

[Enid]

dh and I having this discussion atm

when i say everything it would mean me working full time, no holidays etc

interested to hear mumsnet's take on it

State deffo! My brother sacrificed everything for private school, one dd won a scholarship and a free place second dd didn't so they felt they had to make the sacrifice.

He's in the middle of a divorce now, I know the financial strain didn't help, not the sole reason granted but a factor.

worth bearing in mind (without making sweeping snobby generalisation) that a lot of kids at the private school will be going on expensive hols and have lots of material possessions - your child may feel a bit inadequate or even inferior (wrong though it is to be made to fee l this way, it can make children miserable)! I went to a private school under relatively similar circumstances, ok I ended up doing very well academically and stayed out of trouble, but I couldn't keep up with the other kids in material terms and was often made to feel like the poor relative. Whilst this is a good learning curve for a child and makes you appreciate the value of other aspects in life apart from money, it can damage a child's self-esteem and feeling of belonging, depending on the child's nature of course...

also worth bearing in mind there will be lots of families sacrificing everything to send their kids private and you won't be the only ones who don't ski twice a year.

if you have no holidays you have no wonderful childhood memories

no educational trips to wonderful cities across the world

no experience of the whole range of fantastic things you can do outside a classroom at weekends

and the frazzled parents with no time to talk to them

ulp. no.

no no no no no

The parents I know who are struggling to finance private school, still have holidays, they just put more thought into them than 2 weeks lying horizontal whilst their children are in the kids club.

which is what all state school parents do

because we're all really thick

I had five at private schools and I suppose I never considered the other options as I'd only ever been to private schools and I picked my career in a sense because I wanted to earn enough for a particular kind of life. What about a third possiblity - earning more money, thinking up a clever way to increase income so that the fees are not an issue or getting a job in a private school which gives you reduced fees or getting the children scholarships.
But all that said 96% of children go to state schools so you're hardly taking a minority bad position to do the same.

From an ex-teacher's point of view, I have to say that my heart has bled for the bright kids in a GCSE class of 30, ranging from the A* near genius to the nearly illiterate, gamely trying to gain a deeper understanding of literature whilst I sort out a physical fight between two lads, explain that Macbeth was not a woman for the 19th time and that Shakepeare might not just have been a 'twat' because he wrote in a different English to theirs.

I would say that if your local school has some kind of streaming or setting system, then go for it. In my view, a good school will probably have big top sets where kids can all progress quite easily, and smaller lower sets where more individual help can be given. Then if they all mix in lessons like PSE, games etc. each one will benefit from the interaction. If the school follows 'mixed ability' teaching to GCSE I would forget it and try somewhere else if your child is academically inclined.

I agree.
15 years x 5 children = 75 years at say £10k a year = £750,000 plus funding them at university - about £180k = £930,000 out of income taxed at 41% grosses up to about £1.55m. Plus uniforms, music lessons, trips... worth every penny but not sure I enjoyed doing that sum. Mmmm now what holidays, what dresses, what yachts might one have bought instead.

I went to a crap state school

nothing like the state schools I can consider for my daughter, no, a really, really crap one

my mum was a single parent and had no choice

I left with good O levels - okay, could have been better - because I got a lot of support at home. I moved somewhere else for A levels and did very well. Yes, I could have been nurtured and more could have been expected of me, but I really don't believe that I missed out so terribly badly

it always makes me laugh when people talk about whether or not they should send their kids to a 'decent state school' as if this is the most terrible option

It's not. A really shit state school is the most terrible option, and I still managed to escape the system with a good degree and a good future

mummydoc either your friends are lying to you OR they are teachers at another private school that offers reciprocal discounts, OR that is one helluva crap school - I've never heard of sibling discounts anywhere near that. try 15% off the youngest child's fees if you have 3 children at school at once as a more realistic proposition...

unless you are referrring to downside which is practically paying people to go there at the moment, but I would disagree with you that it is a "top" boarding school

Enid - go state. fees are only going to get worse and more inaffordable, scholarships are worth diddly squat if you have more than tuppence ha'penny income, if state is a disaster, move to private (you'll have saved a year or so of fees working that out)

Message withdrawn

oh bloss do they

so no-one here remembers their childhood holidays fondly do they?

yes, yes, far better they remember being stuck at home all holiday because they can't afford to go anywhere. That's just a beautiful, nostalgic thing to look back on.

ffs

actually my parents always fought like cat and dog on holiday, they were often excruciating. my good childhood memories all revolve around playing around with my siblings at home....
anyway

it's a funny thing, I've found having been educated in private sector but working in state sector that people against private sector feel perfectly comfortable taking potshots at those who send their children to private school and make sweeping statements such as your child may feel ill at ease amongst such wealth' etc - imagine that same kind of statement made the other way round - your children may feel that they don't fit in amongst poor people...not trying to cause a fight or anything here but just my experience that the 'private sector have to bite their lip a bit more when the subject is raised...

what I was trying to say was that having no money and no 'extras' is stressful for a family; and I know this because I grew up in a single parent family

children realise that there's little money; I had some friends who were at private school and I would go round to their (much bigger than mine) house and see their (much newer and more fashionable than mine) clothes and feel totally out of place

A lovely, happy, balanced home life is surely better than a good education at the cost of everything else

absolutley and I don't think there's anyone who would disagree with that- where people disagree is where to draw the line in sacrifices- is it better to spend money on education or holidays- no matter how much money you've got, you've had to sacrifice soemthing to send your children to fee-paying schools, is that not true?

I simply can't understand your position personally, bloss- I have tried but I just can't imagine prioritising (perceived) academic excellence over financial security, a decent sized home in a nice area, choices about both parents' work and family holidays at this stage in the game, even if private education were an option for us. I think your kids are simply too little to know whether a strongly academic, expensive type of teaching/expectation of excellence is the best or only way of realising their potential as learners and as people. As they get a bit older- maybe at the secondary stage- their learning styles and academic interests will be so much clearer and I could understand looking at different styles of school at that point a bit more. The fact that levels of parental sacrifice and therefore, probably, levels of family stress, will necessarily be extremely high to achieve this type of education for them right now would be such a negative to me if the children were already happily settled in an academically "good enough" school at this age. I do, I'm afraid, also think that there is a real risk that your children could feel very pressurised over the much longer term, knowing that such very huge sacrifices have been made for their education. However, I know we feel very differently about what constitutes "excellence" in schools and I really do hope that your decision works out for the best.

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I'd go for the state school all the time

and btw dang that post before mine is long

bloss you get me completely wrong

I've never been on an expensive holiday -it's been caravans and cottages for me both as a child and now

dh has some wonderful memories of budget UK holidays as a child in self-catering cottages with ice-creams on the beach; however his family did have a bit more money than mine and what I remember is being inside a tiny caravan being told we couldn't go to xx today because it would cost too much

I was talking about the freedom to say 'let's do this in summer', rather than doing nothing at all

even budget UK holidays cost

also I'm sad that you think that going to a private school is the only way to get your children to mix with those from families who want them to succeed

I will never be able to afford private school. But I want my children to succeed, and most of the parents I know do. Financial wealth is not always a measure of ambition, either for yourself or your children - it's a measure of the kind of career you have chosen.

The idea that all parents who can't afford to consider state school are just happy for their children to do 'fine' is a little insulting.

Parents just differ on this. No one is right or wrong. My ex husband worked in private schools and we saw hundreds of parents over 15 years of all kinds, some struggling so you wonder why they bother and others for whom it's small change. You can't say what's right for all or some children. Also some parents buy private schooling really badly without really knowing what they're looking for and end up at a worse school than their state option.

I just think always consider the third option if it's a struggle - find a way to increase your income so it isn't.

If you really, desparately need to go for private education, there are a number of ways in which you can try and resolve the finances. A good financial advisor can do wonders with your money and help you build a passive income stream out of making good investment choices.

However, I would definitely agree that you have to be careful not to lump all private schools in together. Although I don't have a lot of experience of private education I understand from listening to lots of friends' experiences that there are good and bad private schools just as there are good and bad state schools. This also has to be combined with your own situation.

I am in this position at the moment of considering private education for my sons at some point in the future. I do think they are probably a waste of money at primary level, although again, it depends on your situation. I am in the lucky position of being able to work from home and still collect my kids most days from school and give them all the support they need after school, be it with homework or having friends over or taking them to their drama, football, swimming etc lessons or whatever without having to spend a fortune on private education.

My only gripe about state education is a personal one - that I did not develop great self confidence. Comparing myself to many friends, colleagues and acquaintances who did go to private school, I notice that confidence is something they all seem to have in common. That seems to be the secret of success for many people and I would like my kids to be an environment where self confidence is nurtured and actively promoted.

Sorry, has turned into long post.

I am indian born in England. My mother and father spoke very little english. I went to a very average state school where a majority of the children were from a similar background to mine.I went on to get A's in most of the o levels I took, went on to uni and Law School..now am SAHM with 2 children.
I have never felt out of place in any situation. My parents brought me up...NOT my school..even though as bloss has pointed out that is where we spend most of our waking hours! My parents taught me about being a good person, having a strong sense of identity, having the confidence to try things, having high expectations of myself, doing my best etc etc. Most of my contemporaries did very well..going on to jobs in the city..bankers, lawyers, doctors, journalist etc.
My parents could not help me with my school work...they could barely speak english then. I was not spoon fed anything...I basically did well because of love, encouragement and the knowledge that my PARENTS had high expectations of me.
Children with potential can do well anywhere! The one thing we all had in common at was that our parents had high expectations, they supported us, encouragement...the obvious things, I know. I feel too many people want to pass the responsibility of the upbringing of their children onto the school...lack of confidence in their ability, lack of time...there is no doubt in my mind that if you give children a good grounding, a solid upbringing they will make the right choices...they will know right from wrong.
My sister is a single parent..she has two boys...both at University...one studying medicene and the other English. They both attended state schools in the local area...the strong work ethic had been passed down from my sister. They are both lovely, articulate, respectful boys..all credit to her..not the school.
We should take on more responsibility for they way our children turn out...It is us ...not their schools that will have the greatest impact on their lives.