why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Yes, please, please, please, please, please explain what these traits are. I am also confused.

KW, i don't have time to get into an argument with you about men. I need to check with my man first if I'm allowed. He's very manly, you see.

Or if its just me and Beatie that don't understand, could somebody else explain?

OK, if anyone else knows what Kittywits defines as a manly trait could you please enlighten me.

okay kitty, point taken.
Much as I would like to , I have not had time to read through all 975 (and increasing) posts on this thread
I would just like to add that I have met some sohm who also treat their children as an inconvenience so it's not just wohm that do this.

Children are an inconvenience though, aren't they? A lovely inconvenience

My dh likes to fart a lot and tells me about his poo I think this is a manly trait ..... or is it just him?

I can't explain, because it is something I feel. I could give you all sorts of adjectives, but it wouldn't work. It has nothing to do with stature, looks or totally with what they do or don't do. It is about their attitude and , yes, aura. They project their masculinity. It's not about stutting around like a peacock. I could walk with you down a high steet now and SHOW you how it feels to me. I could also point out those men who despite their best efforts exude almost none. The closest I can come is do say that for me it has to do with a certain inner strength and self command and being certain of their own very 'maleness'. It's also about not teying to fit into a modern day western notion of how they should now be. There you see, that explains nothing.

I would advice you to fart back Toady, Don't let him victimise you

Christina, it was YOU who asKed ME ABOUT MASCULINE TRAITS, NOT ME WHO STATED TALKING TO YOU!!

KW -

if we're honest, i'm sure lots of mners would agree with you about there being certain masculine "traits" ... I do know what you mean ..and personally have never been into wimps by which I am not saying that any man who does any housework/childcare is a one, before the more militant feminists decide to leap down my throat
this thread is not going to die a sad, lonely death, is it?

it's just a shame that the debate so often has got so personal and that "bigger" issues - pay equality/childcare - haven't been discussed in nearly as much depth as WOHM v. SAHM

"I could walk with you down a high steet now and SHOW you how it feels to me. I could also point out those men who despite their best efforts exude almost none. The closest I can come is do say that for me it has to do with a certain inner strength and self command and being certain of their own very 'maleness'."

Thank you for trying to explain.

I don't know that you really can tell a lot from a man walking down the high street. What you speak about sounds to me like self-esteem and an inner self-confidence. I personally wouldn't define those things as manly or womanly. They are attributes that are (for me anyway) desirable in both sexes and attributes whci are connected to happiness, so I'd wish for everyone in the country to have those attributes.

I'm beginning to think that you place a lot of emphasis on looks. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't find my DH manly by looking at him. He doesn't look physically strong (although doesn't look especially weak either) In his role as a teacher he is very commanding and expects and achieves a high level of discipline from his pupils. As his wife, I'd be appalled if he spoke to me using his teacher-voice or tone.

IMO, a marriage is not the place for one partner to command over the other.

I'm not sure what to say about men having an inner awareness of their maleness. I would love to ask my DH if he does but I fear he'd look at me like I am loopy. I've never thought about having an inner sense of femaleness. I just am who I am. How others choose to perceive me doesn't threaten that.

Mr. Kittywits:

Congratulations are again due to BAWC, this time on your MA in English.

The answers to your questions to me are ALL in my previous posts.
The only point I'm trying to make doesn't need deciphering, I've clearly stated it in my last post. There are only 2 sentences in it! I deliberately made the post short so it would be difficult to misunderstand.

Sorry, Kittywits (is that a nickname your manly DP has chosen for you). I didn't realise we needed to be introduced in order to start talking to each other on a public forum. STOP SHOUTING. You introduced the idea of the manly man (in your last 10 posts or so, I only read a few before joining in the discussion), I questioned that.

..feeling ignored and bored by this 2-way/3-way to-ing * fro-ing..
you'll never agree with each other!

MissChief - I don't think we've been introduced, so I don't know if I can talk to you. Not ignoring you, honest.

Beatie, I said it wasn't about looks. I have seen some very ugly men who are attractive TO ME because of their instrinsic masculinity. It is partly to do with self confidence of course. This is MY take on masculinity. Now some strange women think that the moutashioed Tom Selleck was A real man. I don't.
I have very clear ideas about what makes someone a girly, effeminate and to my mind unattractive man and what makes someone truly msaculine. But as I have already demonstrated . it can't be put into words nor can it be catagorised by ticking certain boxes.

Kitty - I'm not deliberately missing your point. I don't like 'yes men' either nor do I like women who allow people to walk all over them. I think we differ in that I don't attribute assertiveness to 'manliness'.

And I think we all went off on a tangent when you started to say that men who do housework are unmanly. I wonder if you have changed your opinions at all and realise that assertive men do housework too.

Precisely christina, YOU started talking to me, i don't have aproblem this is an open forum. find it a bit bizare that you then say" KW, i don't have time to get into an argument with you about men" You're the one who asked me fhs!!
what an earth has this got to do with being allowed to joln? Yes YOU questioned, I answered and then you said you didn't have time!
If you woild like me to continue to try and answer YOUR questions, try to dampen down the sarcasm. I think you'll find that tactic will just draw you a blank.

That might well be the case Beatie I haven't met all the men who do housework. I can only comment on the ones that I know.

But are you agreeing that it is not the solely the act of doing the housework or looking after the children which make these men appear unassertive but it could be that their relationship with their wife/partner is unbalanced in ALL aspects of their life.

haven't read any of this but wanted to be the 1000th poster!

yaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!