why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

But most crucially number 3.

kitty, if you truly believe in the old fashioned roles, and the way they work, why aren't you married? Surely that would give you real legal security (pardon if I got it wrong and you ARE married)... am not judging you by the way, just interested

We do not object to women going out to work for a living. I said ( rather poorly) at the beginning of this thread that can't UNDERSTAND those women who have pre school children, don't HAVE to work, but choose to put their children more often than not in the care of strangers, and not really have a clue what's happening to them. As has been clearly stated , it is about CHOICE. It IS their choice. I don't understand it anymore than most of you understand my life choices.

I also clearly said that is not about men doing hosework it is about men trying to be women that feminises them. Our home model is not about "him killing the cow and me cooking it". it is about doing what we are good at. Again I refer to "the tribe" there are many models.
Perhaps a delegation of interested Mumsnetters should go and visit these people and help them sort their lives out. I'm sure they'd be eternally grateful and immediately see the error of their ways!

Gem , I hold some "old fashioned values"
( whatever that means), it doesn't mean I have to hold all of them. That wouldn't make sense. In my eyes some are good and some not so good. Like evreything else, it is subjective.

god, this has got personal, hasn't it?!
Partly agree with both of you

• KW in that (IMO) most men inevitably end up being the main breadwinner, at least while children are young, and it's about time society accepted this/supported this as the norm. Time would be much better spent fighting for equal pay for women whether pt or not/ better quality & subsidised childcare than on the rights and wrongs of being a WOHM/SAHM
• BAWC - well, I'm with you then as one of these women who sticks their children in childcare when she doesn't "have" to! (to paraphrase kw) I do this p/t and i do this to stay sane, to keep some semblance of a career and to have some degree of independence from dh.

..just to add though, I chose the nursery with extreme care and wd not have rtned had i not found one which was suitable for ds..

BTW custardo have you been promoted?

Which, Kittywits, brings us back (again!) to this point.

If a woman is going out to work, why should she be expected to do all the stuff that continually NEEDS to be done around the home (nappy changes, housework, cooking) and the man get to choose what he wants to do?

Kittywits, you have failed to explain what part of a male brain makes them less good at throwing some food onto a baking tray or rubbing a duster around the living room.

It doesn't have to belittle what women (typically) do, to say that men are equally capable of doing these things. These are important jobs which need to be done to keep a home sanitary and the family fed.

Also you say that men doing housework isn't what you object to, but you object to men trying to act like women. Aside from men putting on high heels and wearing make-up and a dress (as BAWC mentioned earlier) I don't get what you mean.

Mischief, let's be VERY clear on this. I am not saying your choices are wrong. I am saying that I chose to do something else. Other women's take on the situation is alien to me. I don't trust anyone else to look after my preschoolers but me .But let's not start saying that I am saying or infering this and that. You're not btw, but others have.

I can just about understand kittywits views on the division of labour within a household and what men and women should / shouldn't do - I don't necesarily agree with it, but it's her view and its as valid as anyone's so live and let live.
What I do find a bit patronising and rude is the way she refers to women who put their children into childcare when they don't need to for financial reasons. As someone who has 'abandoned' her four children into 'kennels' or whatever she compares it to from an early age, I find it quite offensive that someone would judge me for this. I too chose my childcare very carefully and despite what kittywits thinks I do believe I know what goes on there. I also ensure that when I am with my children I do as much with them as I possibly can.
And, I don't think my children are 'sad' - they're probably much happier than they would be with a sohm who had no money and was downright miserable.

One of my friends who is a WOHM still does everything at home for her lazy DP. He is content with playing sport in all his free moments. To keep her from getting bored they now have a child. She still does all the work, he still spends most weekends away with his mates. Point is, I don't think the unequal division of labour is a SAHM/WOHM thing, some women just get gradually bullied into a role they don't like but they accept b/c of the convenience of what comes with it (money, social status, security etc). Sorry i didn't have time to read this all.

Blimey this thread has deviated all over the place, cant keep up with it really.

Just to say my DH gos to work Mon - Fri, I stay at home looking after the kids so therefore do most of the housework, when he gets home from work at 6.00pm we both play with kids, put them to bed etc and then both sit down about 8.00pm, mostly I will cook our dinner(that is because I like cooking and we also have an open plan kitchen overlooking the lounge so can chat and cook at the same time) but other times he will cook or we will just have something from the freezer.

We also take it in turns getting up when the kids get up and the other person has a lie in till 8am.

Find this all works very well, so long as everything is done by about 8pm we dont care who does it.

Oh and my dh is very masculine but doesnt mind putting on a pair of marigolds

"What really p*es me off is those women who CHOOSE to go back to work and put their poor kids in day care!!!
I think it's outrageous."

Yes, KW, you did indeed phrase this very badly if what you really meant was "each to their own, this is my choice, but other people make perfectly valid different choices and are equally good parents". Its almost as if you were trying to say something else entirely, or as though you have now changed your mind.

Beatie: You don't have to wear high heals and dresses to be feminine. Those men just aren't manly to me. They display none of the tradtional male traits, still seen in many societies across the world. You don't like these traits anyway so it wouldn't even register to you as an issue. I don't need to spell them out to you. You are an intelligent woman I'm sure.
I can't beleive you don't know what they are even if you think they're rubbish and have no place in our civilised and enlightend society.

What traditional manly traits? Beating up your wife, bullying the kids, that kind of thing?

bogwobbit I refer to my 9.50 post

What Christina, you can't think of any others? Or do your chosen examples support your argument whereas to choose postive ones would undermine it.

What argument, sweetie? You are the one talking about traditional roles that make a man manly. I gave you a few examples. Thank god SOME men have changed.

Kittywits wrote: "Beatie: You don't have to wear high heals and dresses to be feminine. Those men just aren't manly to me. They display none of the tradtional male traits, still seen in many societies across the world. You don't like these traits anyway so it wouldn't even register to you as an issue. I don't need to spell them out to you. You are an intelligent woman I'm sure.
I can't beleive you don't know what they are even if you think they're rubbish and have no place in our civilised and enlightend society."

If I knew what traits you were talking about I would be able to tell you whether I like them or not. I am thoroughly confused.

I did read this post kitty and yes, I know that in it you said that you are not saying wohm' choices are wrong, but this seems diametrically opposite to what you have said in some of your earlier posts. Things like 'pisses me off' and 'outgageous' that women do this. You also refer to 'poor kids' and compare putting children into daycare like putting a dog into kennels and then say 'why bother having kids if you can't be bothered giving them the care and support they need'.
All imo very inflammatory and rude. Yes, I agree you've toned down what you're saying now and it sounds much more reasonable but these were you're original comments.

Yes Christina, now I'm asking you for some positive ones. We can all chose to focus on one smmal aspect in order to strengthen our case. Unless it is of course that you consider all manly traits to be negative?
Can you not think of anything else but physical and verbal abuse?

Yes, BW I have REAPEATEDLY said that they were badly phrased.
I DO INFACT know I couple of women who treat their young children like a real inconvenience to their lives and try their best to spend as little time with them as possible. They are shoved from pillar to post and are shown little respect. Why does that then translate to mean all of you? Again, my choice of language was careless.
I will not apologise again. I have done that enough now.

Kittywits, please tell us what, in your opinion, makes a man manly because I don't think I am the only one who doesn't understand your position.

Beatie, then you will have to stay confused.

Interesting use of the word 'us' btw. Do you speak for everyone here?