why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Beatie, to say that my husband is 'cunning' is a derogatory thing to do. He is the most open and honest man I have ever met, there is no artifice or deceit, nothing underhand. It is also rude of you to say that. It implies that he is trying to get on over on me.
How would you know? Have you been to our house and met him?
Are you basing your unpleasant comments on detailed personal knowledge of him?
I have spent the last day or so happily answering questions from people, your attack on my dp is something different.
To imply that he is cunning enough to put one over on an intelligent , assertive and 'on the ball woman'is to suggest that I am stupid enough to be duped. I would sugest to you that by having all I have , I could list it all for you if you like, I am far from being duped but am infact very shrewd myself and have made enough inteligent decsions to now be in the rather unique situation in which I very happily find myself. Beatie, if you wish to carry on a reasoned conversation with me please to not refer to my dp in that way. You can if it makes you feel better , but I shall not be responding to anymore of your posts if that's what you decide.

Sorry to seem so fixated on the nappy thing. It's just that men refusing to change nappies is not part of my world. And it feels like something that was several generations back as I am sure my dad changed nappies in the 70s and I know for certain that my FIL changed nappies during the 60s!

To me, making a stipulation that you'll never change your baby's nappy, is as alien and ludicrous as a parent declaring they will never wipe a snotty nose.

I agree that the most disturbing part of your happy lifestyle is not how you choose to divide labour but the fact that you have no say and no involvement in the family's finances. You have a duty as a parent to know what might be in store for your 5 children. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of being in the know.

My MIL and my mother, despite being from a different generation, are included in financial decisions with my FIL and father. If something happened to my dad or FIL, there would be no suprises lurking in the filing cabinet.

And refering to men who cook and clean as emasculated is not insulting to many of the women on here? I personally have been insulted by your insinuations.

Again "Would I rather have a nappy changer or my lifestyle" Why must it be one or the other?

I don't mean to sound as rude as I come across. I just have limited time to post so haven't had time to say that it's very good of you to lay your life out in the open in this way and to answer everyone's questions. I am intrigued as everyone else. I truly know so few people who have your situation and I am not talking about the money.

I would still like to know how you know that some of your male friends wish they could assert their masculinity more and what exactly you mean by this?

We have a great life and I change nappies.........have been thinking kittywits you say your dh hates his job and would rather not work , I wonder if the fact that I adore my chosen career and love going to work is the reason I am happy to then muck in and "emasculate" myself at home?

agree about the nappy thing - whoever is spending time with a small child at any given time must surely be willing to feed them, comfort them or clean them if neccessary? that applies to grandparents and aunts and uncles as well as fathers....otherwise what? always have mum hovering around, or leave them grubby?

I am also intrigued, Kittywits, to know which part of the typical male brain (for I agree their are differences) makes them less capable of pushing a vacuum cleaner around the carpet? Does your partner mow the lawn? What's the difference in these tasks that one requires a typical female brain and one requires a typical make brain?

Earlier you said you'd tried DIY but did not have the patience for it. Since you see DIY as a male chore, are you saying that a typical male trait is patience?

I agree there are differences.

But Beatie, I have as much say as I do or do not want! He is more than happy to let me be involved and he keeps me updated on the state of our finances regularly. If I am not happy with the way something is being spent he welcomes my input and ideas. He manages the money because
he is so very good at it.
It's not just with his own invesments, but also with pensions, morgages, savings. You name it, he knows. He spends HOURS trawling through finacial papers, stock exchanges.........etc.
If I were to say to him " dP from now on I would now like run all the finances" he would say "great" and then we would lose all our money, have to down size and worse. He does it because that is his talent, not because I am giving control over to him. So let's say you live with a fab chef, let's say Gordon Ramsey ,and he wants to cook you dinner all the time would you say " no, no, please let me cook us my crappy scrambled eggs on toast" ? Would you?
I bloody wouldn't. As it happens , yes, G ramsey cooks and is a bit ugly, but I find him very masculine and rather dishy. As you know I like that sort of male.

But being aware of the financial affairs of the household isn't the same as one person exercising a talent. I can't understand why you don't want an involvement.

But Beatie, Kittywits has said she is involved to a certain degree. I can see how you would hand over this responsibility to someone who is very good at it and probably enjoys it. Tbh I let my DH deal with most of our stuff too just because I find it immensely boring and could never spend hours on the internet researching investment opportunities etc And Kittywits has said that if something was to happen to her DH then she would be able to take over.

I think I am kind of getting a handle on this not changing nappies thing. In an earlier post KW said that she didn't live with her partner when her first two children were babies which is a very unusual situation, but I suppose I can imagine how that could lead to not changing nappies. I suspect that by the time you get onto baby number 3 you are both quite set in your ways, and again KW has an unusual amount of support (although an unusual amount of children too). The thing that was confusing me before was how it was logistically possible to avoid changing a nappy and be a father, but I can kind of see how that situation would arise here.

You don't have to actually take over the finances. Just know where the money is! My dh chooses our cars. I nothing about cars, nothing at all. He chooses them (although I do have a power of veto), but he wouldn't decide on his own about a new car. Actually, he did buy a car once without telling me, but it was a project/hobby car for him to play with, rather than a family car. Anyway, I'm going off my point, which is, so long as you know what comes in and where it goes out, that's fine.

Because it's boring. Why would I want to do something that's boring? I know what is going on AND I know how it's being done. He is better at finances than anyone I have ever known, know now and will probably ever know. Are you saying that someone with such depth of knowledge and talent and integrety should hand over the reins to someone who knows the bare basics.
Only a fool would do it and only a fool would want it. neither of use are fools.
I really, really don't understand what your problem is!!! So,... we should be poorer, live in smaller house, have fewer children, go on fewer holidays, have rubbish pensions, mortgages and investments just so that I can be in control of the finances. Thanks, but no thanks!

Thankyou becky
Thankyou fairy
Thankyou madame P
You HAVE listened to me. I'm beginning to feel like a stuck record!

Actually DP thinks finances are more boring than I do. He hates it. Fortunately for us he's a whizz at it.

Don't you think it's sad he hates his job though? My Dh is a fund manager too. Works in the city. I know it's tough, but luckkily he enjoys it. Now, one of the reasons I work is to relieve a little of the pressure on DH when it comes to the financial responsibilities. I am not talking about KW's family-life now, just in general. I think it's important to have a balance to your life. Work is so much more enjoyable if you also have a full life outside work. I love my job and then I love coming home to my children and pretend to be a donkey which I was busy doing earlier. I could never be a dinkey all day and I could never work all day wihtout spending any time with my children. But neither could my DH. For me it's all about balance and I think that's missing in a lot of marriages where you have too much division of labour.

From hearing people talking at work it seems as though the older women are more likely to put up with doing everything than the younger ones and that the older men are more likely to do less? I know this is a complete generalisation but does anyone think of any truth in it?

Agree with fairymum about the need for balance. It is a shame that Mr K is firmly in the role of provider but doing something he is bored with and hates! Especially now he cannot get off the threadmill because of his need to feed his large family. Kittywits, I would say you are very shrewd indeed. Looks like you got a lot more out of the division of labour than Mr K. No, not a deluded wife at all. [respect]

The way remuneration is pegged in certain City jobs is that the difference between working 100% (ie normal working hours) and 150% (significantly more than working hours) is phenomenal. If I was willing to put in 150% in my previous job, I could potentially earn many times what I currently do. But the cost to my family life would be inestimable. I would thoroughly hate it. No amount of nappy changing from dh would change my mind.

How long does Mr K have to do this for? What if, just if, you could pitch in and Mr K downshift to a less remunerative job but doing something he loves? And still continue to spend time with his family?

Beatie dp does not mow the lawn or push the hoover, actually neither do I!! We pay others to do it.

And if you couldn't afford to pay someone to do each of these jobs - who would do each?

To answer your earlier question Beatie, I should have said I know men who would like to "be more masculine" rather that "assert their masculinity". How do I know this? The short answer is because I know them Beatie a slightly longer answer is because I've seen them in "masculine" and "feminine" roles and seen which makes them happier A full answer would fill a book.

I would do both Beatie

WMF you know you're not my sort of bloke. I'm not going to comment on why you're happy. If you think you're happy because you are in some way emasculated then that is fine for you. Your dw likes that sort of man. It would be a bit tricky if we all wanted the same thing, in my book