why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

WMF: I also think a midwife should herself have experienced chilbirth first hand. No , you don't sound atall like my kind of man. However I don't think you'll find that I have told how you should live your life. I have expressed an opinion on the emasculation of men as I see it. If you feel that you are the man you want to be it's no concern of mine and I am pleased for you.
I do know men who would like to assert their masculinity more than they feel they can.
Again (yawn), I point out that dp was present at his children's births and was the first person to hold them after they were born. He was not my support partner. Once a midwife asked him to put a nappy on the baby, v. funny!!!!!

I don't feel my lifestyle has been belittled. People have been interested and have tried to understand where I'm coming from. To feel belittled I would have to feel unsure about my position. On that I am crystal clear, infact even more so since being involved in this thread.
I have really enjoyed this exchange of views with people.

Floating on the med

So bugsy are you saying you HAVE come across men who didn't want to be at births? Want to make sure I understood correctly

Well seeing as there is a massive midwife shortage countrywide at the moment thank goodness there is no such stipulation in place hey.

floating- you sound like a very lovely person. I honestly didn't think my ideas where that extreme, but somehow I suspect they'll be a few irate postings once the workers return home from the coal face!!

Kittywits, thanks for the insight into your life.

It fascinates me because it describes my parents' marriage and the sort of marriages that I get to see in my place of work (City). But whilst my parents' marriage was/is not a happy one - my mother felt very lonely - you and dh seem to have worked it out.

I don't claim to know Mr Kittywits but think I can just about visualise the sort of man your dh is - feel free to correct me. I admire their drive, brains, presence, command - always had a weakness for boffin-like types. Unfortunately, they also tend to be the sort who think working mothers are a contradiction in terms (cue eyeballs rolling) and, quoting from real life, joke whether it is more expensive to hire a woman or to marry her. I can't imagine them helping out an awful lot at home.

I do note that Mr Kittywits does not work in that kind of environment, chose to work from home with some semblance of a family life (no nappies nor being a birth partner notwithstanding). So I don't consider him the stereotypical City-type.

But but ... it is a lot of pressure for a man to be so clearly slotted into the role of sole provider. The area that Mr K works in is, I believe, financially rewarding but very volatile and risky. Investment is not a science, and even the brightest/hardestworking cannot predict the markets. I agree that you don't have to consider the worst case scenarios, but I believe Mr K being prudent would have an exit strategy.

So where is all this leading?

The division of labour works well, for now and possibly until Mr K is ready to retire. But if a person's identity is so tied up in his earning power and success (with his partner reinforcing this), it has a potential toll on self-worth, even when the going is good. Needless to say, if the going gets rough, I don't think it would be a simple case of Mr K happily re-tooling into a nappy-changing birth partner.

That is the danger of polarised roles. Apart from division of labour, I think balance is more important. Hey, I am not saying I don't envy you, if only because you can spend so much time posting on mn . But sometimes, it could be good to try and step into the other person's shoes and try them out a bit.

KW - you don't sound extreme - you sound very centred and sure of yourself. But your views and your lifestyle does sound extremely unusual these days.

And my DH was one of those men who would have preferred not to be there I think. He found it frightening and confusing in spite of being to all the ante-natal classes with me. Neither of us would have wanted to miss the actual birth and the bonding experience afterwards but the long drawn out bit before wasn't something that he could contribute to. I preferred to be able to centre in on the pain/effort and not worry about what anyone else was thinking or feeling - as it I felt that I had to be constantly asking him if he was OK . He missed most of the third birth anyway as he had been sent home the night before and I went into labour properly in the middle of the night. Much easier all round

You know blue shoes mr K would love to stop working, he hates it and the business he is in is extremely risky and cosequently extremly stressful. However, he does have his fingers in other pies and has invested in alot of properties which are prety well self managing and has also invested large anount in another company of which he is part shareholder. My dp is a pedant and is a stickler for detail. He pretty well has financial avenues covered.
yeah, i do feel like I have spent an inordinate amount of time posting. still it has been surprisingly helpful for me, so that has to be a good thing!

Your version is the correct one floating!

Too right joelallie

Still speculating on Mr K, it could very well be both, floating/Kittywits. I'd be surprised if Mr K's identity was not tied up in his ability to provide for his family. Like I say, walk a mile in someone else's shoes ...

Floating: Dp hates working. He would hate it even more if he was working for someone else. If I worked we would have to spend such a huge amount on childcare it wouldn't be worth it. He has to work so much because we have five hungry mouths to feed. We both chose to have this many children, there were no "accidents", so we both knew the implications and not just the financial ones. One thing i reaaly like about him is he doesn't go off with the lads all the time to pubs etc. When he does I don't mind. I'm too tired to go out most of the time, but I don't see why we both have to be hermits. he has also made it very clear that he would much rather I was with him when he went out, bless.

I bet Mr Kittywits could do the same again from scratch tbh Blueshoes.

He sounds like a real Alpha male (just kidding )

I happen to think he is, don't know if he does.

Yes....that's exactly the way it is for most of the working mums I know in rl. Staying at home is finanicially not an option. I manage to reduce the costs due to my parents having always looked after each child once a week pre-school and now working partly at home. If was still working full-time I could afford full-time childcare but not if I needed it for 3 kids at once. I know that it's cheaper here than is some parts of the country.

It's not about who does what. That's superficial. It's about POWER, and you can't tell how that is shared by reading someone's description of their division of labour. My FIL never changed a nappy, never does any housework. My MIL wouldn't dream of letting him do so. But they make all life decisions together. Power-sharing, not division of labour.

dunno floating - e.g. my sister's PT salary is v little more than her ds's nursery fees, but for her it's worth working to keep her career going. It is working well from that POV as she is getting more experience and is not that interested in climbing the management ladder anyway. Not sure what she'll do when he's at school though - prob a bit of wraparound care on her PT days.

OTOH, there's no way I'd do my old job without a fat paycheck at the end of the month - bits were interesting and enjoyable, but a lot of it was stress and frankly v boring. I wouldn't do it FT because I wouldn't want ds to be in full-time daycare and PT working was v much frowned on in my dept - not only would my career have ground to a screeching halt, but they would have actively wanted me out. So it was a no-brainer for me.

That is so right becky. My dp would say that I have alot more power than him though, I'm sure

I hope you know where all the money is though kw. It's OK for him to do the donkey work regarding your finances, but financial decisions are included in the "life-decisions" I referred to.

And I don't think your children will necessarily grow up to seek the same overt roles in life as you and your dh. My dh changes a fair few nappies despite his father's lack of experience in this area. I think children are sensitive to the dynamics of a relationship, not just the outward trappings. So my dh sees marriage as a partnership of equals, as his parents' marriage is, no matter who does what.

"Would I rather have a nappy changer or my lifestyle? There's no contest."

Kittywits ~ There are probably plenty of households where one partner works away from home very long hours and so by not being in the company of their children so often, they don't change many nappies. The difference is, when these parents are in the company of their children, they roll up their sleeves and get on with what needs to be done to care for their child - and that includes nappy changes. It's very cunning of your husband to persuade you that it's an either/or situation. Money or nappies!

wheresmyfroggy - What a relief to hear you say that you help your wife because it is collectively your house and your children

Kittywits - "I do know men who would like to assert their masculinity more than they feel they can." How do you know this? And what do you mean by asserting masculinity?