why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Mr. Kittywits:

BAWC: I cut & paste my posting from early this morning, "...answered a message for Kittywits that was really for me, than got carried away...". I don't speak for Kittywits, I think she can speak for herself don't you?

Blueshoes: I certainly had no intention of posting this morning but you hit the nail on the head and I felt impelled. I'm an investor in equiities, currencies, comodities and property working from home. I don't work in the city cos I prefer to be here with dp, 5 children and my mother! The stress of work, however, is just the same as if I worked in the city. My return on capital is higher than any fund managers or investors you have ever heard of, the price is that I have to work V. hard for long hours but the hours are flexible because I work from home.

Caligula - ITA with you about working from home. I do it 2 days a week. However for me it's the best option - I've had so much more time with DS#2 than I did with the other 2. It also means I can polish my halo and walk my eldest 2 to school.

Well in that case we might as well all give up now joelallie

Yes it was the right thing to do for me for the last 3 years but I'm getting so bored of it joelallie. No way could I do it full time - it's bad enough doing 2 days a week - I always stretch it over 5 days because I haven't got the self-discipline to sit down and just do it!

Mr Kittywits, thanks for enlightening (you did not have to but I was being nosy!). I did suspect you were doing that. Sort of like those fund managers who work in the Caymans but still work incredibly hard, under intense pressure to make the right investment decisions in constantly changing markets. I understand now. Peace.

I say, what alot of posts!!
bacwc, thankyou for your earlier post about me not feeling victimsed. I appreciated that and will be quite happy now to continue to talk to you!!
There are such a lot of posts to read that please forgive if I have not replied to everyone.
I should not have said that women should stay at home in order to be good carers. I recognise that and apologise to anyone that I have offended. It's interesting that since having this discussion I have had one of the best night's sleep in ages and i think it's because in explaining our set up here I have realised how ok. it is with me. We all have gripes with our life choices and the compromises we make and I'm no different. "explaining myself" has made me realise that my life really is good!

I do not mind reavling information about my circumstances and I do not feel put upon because most of the posts are not attacking me, they are questioning, which I think is what good debate is about.
I do feel calm about this because I don't feel on the defensive because i am as sure as I can be that my life choices have been right for me.

We can all say " yes, but what if...." there is no ultimate security in life and the unexpected pops up all the time.You cannot cover every eventuality because those arrise that you hadn't even thought about.

I also don't think that by living by the old model is a step backward, it is just a way of living. For dp and I the children's welfare comes above everything else, as it does with all of you, however, I do not think their happiness now or as adults is compromised ny that fact that I change nappies and manage the house. My children seem to be inteligent enough and I'm sure they will have the capacity to realise that there are many models in life and this is just
one. The most important thing i believe is that they see dp and i work together for the good of the family. The children feel safe and secure and supported by both of us.

Tigermoth, before I lose you post amoungst the million ! In response to your earler questions
"But what puzzles me is if you feel like this - that his masculine nature is integral to his character and wouldn't change if circumstances changed - then why do you say you think nappy changing etc emasculates him?

Have I misunderstood you? Somewhere amongst your other messages I got the impression you'd find it hard to fancy men who do housework. I can't see how you can believe masculinity is intergral to your dh's personality while also believing that a simple 2 minute nappy change can threaten that."
My dp DOES pick up rubbish and stuff around the house if he comes across it( actually when he trips over it), cups etc. What PERSONALLY turns me off is men who do loads of house work or try to be like women. I really can't explain myself. I don't find those men attractive who are bossed about by their women and run round trying to please them by getting in touch with their feminine side.

If our circumstances changed it would not make him any less masculine to me if he chipped in with the house work a little bit until he got back on his feet, but if he went round doing jobs I consider to be unmaly MOST OF THE TIME then that would not be him and I probably wouldn't see him in the same light. I don't think that is different to how you would feel if your dp appeared to undergo a personality change. I guess you are with him because you basically like the man he is. I have male friend who has 2 young children, goes out to work, yet goes home and does all the kiddy stuff, cooking bathing ,stories. When they have dinner parties he does all the cooking, hosting, tidying away. I have known him for a good 10 years and I must say he looks absolutely knackered. He is very stressed and tired. I find it sad to see him with a pinny on and a dish cloth in one had whilst his wife sits around. I think he is completely emasculted and I know him well enough to know that he is not happy
That's it, it's not that men who do a bit of helping in the house aren't manly, it's those who think they should be new men that I find unattractive.

Shopping secret, we've been talking about it because everyone has been asking how our lives work. Our lifestyle and set up IS dependent on money, isn't yours?!

Do men who do housework try to be like women? Do they reach for the hoover in some mad vagina-envy moment?

ss it's hard to say because I am not in that circumstance. We have developed our lifestyle because of our finances and support network. if my dp didn't do the job he does at home and we hadn't been able to have the support network then I wouldn't have 5 kids and a large house to manage. I said somwehere earlier that When ds1 and2 were both still babes in arms that dp and I lived apert. I only saw him at meals times. I was looking after the children new born and 14 months old on my own . Dp was working flat out 7 days a week to get his business off the ground. if everything had collpsed and he had to work away from home then we would not be in the situation we are in now. I would not need help to look after just 2 or 3 kids and a smaller house. I think most people would like to get more money. We now need to keep our income up because our out-goings are huge. because I support him he is able to do this. Would I rather have a nappy changer or my lifestyle? There's no contest.
As I've said I would have had no interest in mentioning my finances if the question hadn't arrisen.

No fm I think they do it because they think that that is how society is now.
Do you know when I was at ante-natal classes with ds1 (dp and I had already agreed that he wasn't the right man for the job as far as being a birth partner was concerned. I wanted a woman with me who had given birth. I choose my mum at that time. I wanted him to be around for the birth, but I didn't want it to be him back rubbing, encouraging etc) we had to introduce our birth partners. my mum lived in London at the time so I was more than happy to go by myself. Nearly all the other women were there with their frankly terrified looking partners.
When it came to my turn and I explained that Dp wasn't the right man for the job and I was chosing another birth partner i WILL NEVER forget the looks on those men's faces. i very clearly remeber them looking at each other with a real "bloody hell, lucky so and so" look on ther faces.
My very long winded point is that some men do stuff because both their partners and society have told them they should do it in order to be a good bloke. I don't believe that such an inherently instictive thing such as masculinity can be stomped on by pc antics. I'm all for female equality and thankgod for the advances and sacrifices women have made along the way. But I think our society now has gone too far in some areas, where men are terrified of being male and to be a "traditional woman ( whatever that means) is considered to be demeaning. WE are not the same, we are not, we are not. why are people saying we are??
As to whether changing a nappy is a female job, I think so, but changing a nappy doesn't stop a man being a man. Trying to to even out the differences between the sexes so that we both become androgynous does.

I would never have wanted dw to have any birthing partner other than me at the birth of either of our dds and I am looking forward to being there next month for dd3's birth. I am not pretending this is the case and I am not saying this because I want to be a new man. Likewise I help around the house and change nappies etc because it is our house and they are our children not because I think that is what I should do.
Each to their own Kitty and fair dos to your dh if he doesn't want to do theses things but please don't assume that all men are similar in their thinking.............some of us want to do it

KW! Something I totally agree with you on!! DH was useless at being a birthing partner and I'd have much preferred a close woman friend who had been through it. He just stood there looking terrified and telling me to breathe. What do you think I'm doing !!! You'll know when I've stopped because I'll turn blue and fall over.... .

It was a lot easier once he'd started listening to the football (on the CD player that we'd brought to listen to soothing music on) and left me to get on with it. After it was all over though it was wonderful to have him there.

Unless we try our hand at all skills, how can we possibly know what suits us. I look incredibly feminine in a 1950s way & yet I am good at DIY, map-reading, woodwork & financial affairs. If I was stuck in a world where those activities were considered unfeminine & manly & I wasn't allowed to do the - I would be a lesser person for that & the world would be missing out on my skills in these areas!
I have absolutely no wish to become adrogynous & if you saw me you would realise that nothing could be further from the truth.
This is just one of the many reasons I dislike the use of womanly & manly when describing activities.
Women can have babies & men tend to have greater physical strength & that is about as far as my distinction between male & female goes!

It's not about him missing out, I said my dp was present but not my main support. How sad that you think of giving birth as a horrific experience. My births were wonderful. Sorry but a man can't give birth and I don't see why you feel you sould punish him in some way because of that. Men never supported women in childbirth until VERY recently and with good reason too, with the exception of some they are just not as good at doing it as other women. How can they be? if my bloke got kicked in the nuts, somehow I don't think I could empathise with him as much as his best frind. It's cold comfort for me to have someone try and placate and sooth me during childbirth when they have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what I'm going through and I don't feel the need to foist that upon them.

Well done bugsy for your lovely sounding dress style
I have done diy in the past, my nature is that I'm too impatient to do a good job. It's true that we never know what skills we have until we try. I guess I would never have know about the skills I have now if I'd concentated in other areas.

So in that case only people who have previously given birth should be birthing partners?
Thank goodness my wife doesn't see it like that.

Yes whf I do beleive that, as it has been in our society in the past and still is so in many non western societies even now.

...... and women didn't solely stay at home to look after children until during the last century!!!!
Most of the men I know are in absolute awe of their partner/wife's ability to bring a child into the world & wouldn't have missed their child arriving for anything. Of course there are exceptions but IME, they are few & far between. Given that I've spent years working in a very robust City environment where no type subject matter is out of bounds - I think I'd have picked up on a strong feeling of resentment towards being present at their babies births.

Well you better tell all those midwives out there who are childless.
You seem to have such a fixed view of what men should do and what they have no business doing......................quite frankly it makes me giggle that i would be your idea of a total inadequate and unmanly man, yet to my wife I am bloody perfect as is she to me. In the same way that people earlier belittled your lifestyle you are doing it to me . Luckily I don't care too much as i know I am loving my life.

Absolutely bugsy...........every single one of my friends saw it as an honour to support their wife through labour. Awe is an understatement.