why are some women content to do all the housework?

[honeydew]

I meet lots of mums in my local area who, like me, are stay at home mums with very young children but are prepared to do absolutely everything for their partners and DH's! They slave away cooking, cleaning and washing at home with no help and at the weekends, they still don't expect
their partners to do anything! I have friends who never get a proper break from their children, even if it's only for a couple of hours. Their DH's leave them to it 24/7. Is it just me who has found that old style patriarchy is alive and well in society once a woman gives up work to raise her brood? My DH does help me with baby DS, he also puts my older daughter to bed and washes up after I've cooked each night, so we work as a team. So many women I speak to say that their DH's are not 'hands on' parents and do virtually all the chores and baby changing/feeding. Oviously, if one partner is working during the week they can't do that much, but some men don't want to contribute at all it would seem! Are they just lazy or simply 'expect' women to fulfill that role?

Oops - first paragraph should have had quotes around it.
Also, most fathers I know do a fantastic job of looking after their children when the need arises or in co-operation with their spouses. Some men, like some women, have more of a knack to the business of relating to children and anticipating their needs, but even the crap ones I know are good enough.

I mean crap ones realtively speaking. Not crap overall

Honeydew, your village sounds a bit thin on community life but they are not all like that. We are in the South too (bit further west from you) and here you can do toddlers, preschool, primary school and church/village clubs/societies/organised events/activities without getting the car out, and if I have a day where I don't bump into at least 10 local friends or acquaintances, then I feel a bit isolated...

By the way, one way to avoid obesity as a SAHM is to have lots of contact with your child(ren) and all their mates, 'cos you lose loads of weight when you get the bugs they pass around. (Trust me - failsafe 4 pounds in 3 days this week!)

Well, knock me over with a feather, some SAHMs feel isolated. Now, where oh where have I heard that before? Didn't someone bring that up quite a while ago but was told she was being negative and critical about SAHMs? Now who was that again?

'it's nice that your DH can also take responsibility for your child when they're ill, but as beatie says most couples don't have equal priority jobs'

Not necessarily arguing Caligula just not sure I understand what you mean by 'equal priority'. My dh actually earns more than me and is a HoD which I'm not. Does that mean his job has 'more priority'? And what about his job as a dad and our commitment to each other as parents and as people? What I'm saying I think is that if a mum and dad both work it doesn't necessarily follow that mum is the one who takes time off for sick kids because she is a nurse and he is a doctor does it? Or does it? And who makes that decision?

kittywits "I' mnot prepared to listen" You said it.

I do agree that society has changed and SAHMS are on the whole without good networks around them these days. However, I also think there was lots of depressed SAHMS a generation back and a lot of pill-popping. They just didn't admit to it. When I look at my MIL I can see that she had a larger support network, but I can also see that she had no other opportunities. Being a SAHM was her job and how she defined herself. If she hadn't been good at it, she would have failed in her job. If you think we are competitive parents these days, just try having a baby who was not potty trained at 12 months back in those days.

Kittywit, I suppose on whose brain you scan. Can I aks you what other skills and interests you have? If you define yourself purely by looking after your children then I understand more where you are coming from. Everyone wants to have something they are really good at

sorry crunchie - for misreading befiore

not read all the thread as probably the longest thread i have come across im a SAHM and do majority of housework as appreciate my DH works very hard to enable me to SAH looking after my 2 under 5's (thought i should get that it quick so wouldnt get told off for being SAHM with school age children )
he does lots with children though but because he wants to not because i ask him to so it works well. I dont necessary think SAHM feel isolated as i think in all walks of life you can feel isolated, I used to work in a predominately male environment but felt isolated and somedays i feel isolated as SAHM but only in so far as difficult some days to find another adult to catch up with but always have 2 children to talk to also admire women who go out to work who's children are in childcare as this isn't something i felt i personally could do as IMHO i think mother nature made us mothers for a reason and although others can do a perfectly good job looking after our children no one has the same connection and does it as well as the child's own mum!!

bawc in the real world, we all know that the one who brings in the most money takes priority because that's the income the family is most dependent on. And in most cases, that's still the man. In the doctor/ nurse scenario, you might actually find that the doctor (who will earn more) may actually be the one to take time off because in fact they have more control over their working hours - but most men, even if they do earn more than their wives / partners, still don't have the control over their hours needed to function as a parent without eventually pissing off their employer.

And a quarter of families don't have the luxury of being able to negotiate with another adult who will take responsibility - it's all down to one person (usually a mother, though one in ten lone parents is headed by a man - and does it surprise anyone to know that a male lone parent is less likely to be unemployed and claiming benefit than a female lone parent?).

I agree with Caguila - i was always the one to finish early or take time off when DD was little and I worked part time. BAWC is very lucky with of them both being in the same profession and so ultimately family friendly hours and school holidays etc I know i will really struggle if I decide to go back to work when both children in school as how much competition will I have for 9.30-2.30 type jobs? lots me thinks

sorry "Caligula"

i agree that a more communal way of life with everyone helping out would make bringing up children so much easier for many women. My DH and I jokingly talked about moving to America and him becoming a Mormon so that he could have 10 other wives to help me with childcare! Either that or start his own hareem- in his dreams!

Maybe on the whole we don't just 'pop' round to each others houses ( Crunchie, your village sounds great though!) because we are to embarrased to admit we need others and don't want to infringe on other people's time either as we all lead such busy lives these days. Women of our generation (I'm in my thirties) have grown up with the Thatcherite ideas of self-sufficiency and achievement, so possible we don't want to be seen as vulnerable? To be 'needy' of others for support when only qualities of strength are valued by society as a whole, goes against the grain of modern life.
Sometimes maybe it's a fear of disliked or not fitting in to the people around you?

Yes, our community here has lots for school age children but not much for pre-schoolers unfortunately.

Sorry - I really don't agree that because DH earns the money that he takes priority, surely this is an outdated concept. If a couple find that that division of labour is what works for them, then of course that's fine, but I do object to the idea that this is how it should be for all. DH and I consider our life to be run as a team, he goes to work and I stay at home looking after the children. When he gets home his working day is over and therefore he helps me with anything that is needed. This is not just how I think it should be, it's how he feels too and by the way he was brought up by a mother who did everything for him.

s'ok Custy, I wouldn't have wanted ou getting the worng idea. Thoughts of that night still amuse me in that hotel room. Gomez I think it was was hilarious until she nearly passed out!!

Sorry off the subject, which I still think is facinating

Again, not disagreeing with you, but you say 'we all know that the one who brings in the most money takes priority because that's the income the family is most dependent on.' Don't most jobs let you take so many days off for sick kids and still pay you? I know you're entitled to x many unpaid days for this reason. It's a genuine qu. And I know many parents feel they have to pretend it's actually them and not their kids who are ill.

I really agree re Crunchie's post re the nature of society changing that is the crux of this. Yes, things weren't perfect but there was support. We now have lots of other things (mainly material) but the support has gone. Hence isolation. We expect this gap to be filled by other things but its just not. Sorry if slightly off topic again.

glass of wine - I think Caligula meant that the higher salary earner tends to be the one left to work while the lesser earner (normally the mother) will be the one to leave work early or take time off rather than the higher earner having "priority" (correct me if Im wrong )- you probably wouldnt want to jepordise the larger salary i would imagine I have same situation as you and DH and me share everything that is left to do and childcare once he returns home - I'm probably a bit odd as I like to leave him with the childcare whilst I do the housework - i find it relaxing

If that is the case (which it is in teaching) why does the money even come in to it? DH and I negotiate when one of the kids is ill. What's going on at work? How many classes will be affected if one of us is sick? Etc.

Now don't pour scorn on this or suggest that my life is utopian just because this may be unusual. If people continue to just accept that it's 'normal' for the woman to do all the child-care, all the house-work and the man to go out, earn the money and do nothing to help with kids or home, then of course that's the way it will remain.

We also try to think long-term. Yes dp works full-time and has more responsibility at work but I need to earn a good reputation too in case I want to move up the ladder when kids are older.

Sorry BAWC I think you misunderstood - I should have added an emoticon for "irony" only I don't think there is one.

Where I live it is pretty much impossible for a SAHM to feel isolated hence my comment about meeting at least 10 people a day. Everyone to who moves to the village is visited by a jolly mum who gives them a welcome pack of what's going on, bus timetables, parish magazine etc etc etc, plus post- and ante-natal groups are held in the village, and anyone with a buggy who meets someone else with one that they don't know always stops to chat. I have had times when I have felt miserable and unsociable, and almost ended up in tears by the time we got the 1/4 mile to preschool as I have met 15 people who have made me feel loved and wanted. I guess you COULD just stay in your house and never go out but certainly here you would need to be DETERMINED to feel isolated...

B&WCat - when I worked DH's job always took priority because his colleagues were more likely to get pissed off at him if they had to cover his lessons in his absence. I had an office-based job and a job which paid less, so whilst my absence from work would get tut-tutted at by colleagues, none of them had to pick up my work. I had to catch up when I went back to work following dd's sick-day. If DH took a day off (on top of ALL those school holidays) to stay at home with our sick dd, we knew that he'd have 7 classes of pupils who would miss out.

Goodness - he didn't even get 2 weeks paternity leave as I had the misfortune to have my babies out of school holidays.

Since you and your DH are both teachers you don't need to prioritise.

BAWC - you are allowed a certain number of days off to look after children or at least i was in my old job but it is the digs and comments from other usually non-parents that makes working life difficult unfortunately. also the fact that no matter how good you are at your job when redundancy or similar beckons i would bet that those working mothers go first (not obviously as that would be illegal but i bet it happens)

No, I wasn't talking about you, Mumofsomeoen. I was talking about Honeydew and others who said they felt isolated.

Additionally, I had to make up days that I had off if the children were sick. You do not automatically get paid on days not worked to care for another. It's under the Employer's discretion, AFAIK.