Should teachers have to take tougher tests before they qualify?

[Solopower1]

What do you think?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20083249

But accountancy is boring and doesn't have the holidays.Sorry my dp did accountancy and hated it-they deserve every penny they get in his view.

There are several benefits to being a teacher aside from a good salary.Gov just needs to keep standards high-people will always want to be teachers.

All sectors make sure their employees up their game.Try IT if you don't keep up with the new stuff(even if it means funding and studying in your own time)you're out of work.

Sorry my dp works from 8-6 and carries on working in the evening/weekends-with zero PPA or holidays.

I was a teacher for several years pre kids and sorry I know how it is,it's no harder than many other jobs which don't get an afternoon off a week for paper work.

Try looking for non teaching work,you soon realise that teachers get a good deal,it's quite an eye opener.

Just for the record, Prairie, I've been teaching since the late 80s, full time, and I earn under £30,000. I'm not complaining, but just so you know.

Aren't you doing threshold,I'm sure I got more than that when I left(had threshold)?In IT if you want to get higher salaries you have to do some management in many areas.

I think that is probably fair if you teach in primary.
I also think it not make the recruitment of teachers easier. I completely agree with Ronaldo. Gove needs to make the job more attractive so that well qualified graduates are tempted to give it a go.

I don't deny that the salary is good, it's just nowhere near good enough to attract the "brightest and best" Gove is on about.

PPA is not an afternoon a week if you're a secondary teacher. It's a free lesson here and there. And if you were a teacher, Prairie, then you'll know that 2.5 hours per week is nowhere near long enough for the amount of work involved.

I love my job, and FWIW, I am probably one that Gove would approve of- I got As & Bs in all my GCSEs & A Levels and have a degree from an RG university. Standards do need to be maintained, but until the job is made more attractive, graduates who could earn more will take those jobs.

I remember the skills tests when i did them as being quite easy, and you didn't use a calculator - it was all mental maths. Anyway, I remember the difficulty with the Skills Tests was not passing the tests at all. It was passing the tests in a city 20miles away after a term of long days at schools while sleep deprived with commuting an hour each way every day and completing assignments.

Of course now I know that I knew nothing about sleep deprivation then, as I haven't consistently had enough sleep in about 2 years. (toddler at home now!)

Its not so much about training teachers (although I have no problems with tougher testing before startint the course)

The bigger problem is retaining the good teachers. The majority of bad teachers leave anyway, but IT specialists, Engineers, Scientists etc. will get jobs elsewhere with less stress and better pay.

Less stress Boney pmsl!!!!!

Dp came back from his holiday to find both his managers gone so he is now doing their work and his. When you have shed loads of money relying on code you write,ridiculous deadlines (which can change in a whisper),continuous updating........ it's urmmmm quite stressful.

Also people getting these alleged better salaries would have to take out a massive % to get anywhere near the pensions teachers get.

I don't think that many 21 year olds think about pensions.

Currently primary teachers must have a GCSE in Maths and English and pass a skills test in both plus ICT, as well as having a degree, which presumably required higher order literacy skills in order to complete assignments

Personally I found the skills tests so easy that I always feel when I find out one of my colleagues needed more than one attempt at any of them. They really were laughably simple.

More fool them.

21 year old teachers don't have to,they can enjoy their entire salary and not make extra provision.

Chip on your shoulder, Prairie??

The starting salaries for Gove's "brightest and best" are simply not comparable. And as a once 21 year old PGCE student, the holidays argument is pointless, as I had no money to go away at peak time and no one to go with.

Why on earth would I have a chip?I'm just saying how it is.In these times teachers have it good(so much so I'm considering a return myself)-sorry.

Re being a 21 PGCE grad,it's no diff than any other grad in any other sector.There are masses of things you can do in the hols-Bunac,inter railing...Being broke doesn't mean you can't have fun,dp would love 12 weeks off a year and could fill it all with fun free stuff.

Perhaps Mr Gove should recruit you, Prairie. You could go round the top universities, at the same time as the milk round, telling soon-to-be graduates that teaching is fabulous. That would sort it.

Perhaps your DP should become a teacher, then. Sounds like he hates his job.

Of course now I know that I knew nothing about sleep deprivation then, as I haven't consistently had enough sleep in about 2 years. (toddler at home now!)

I agree - I thought I knew all about exhaustion until I had a child.

Have managed an outstanding observation from Ofsted after just 4 hours sleep though - ds, then 1 yrs, had a chest infection.

No he loves it-when he's left to get on with it!

Evil you sound as if you've got a chip to be frank.Surely anybody who hates teaching shouldn't be doing it.

All sectors have to improve and raise their game.If doctors got the hump every time new initiatives/requirements came in we'd be up shit creek ditto IT and most other professions.

I think as a profession teachers take things to heart too much at times.Professions will always need to evolve,improve.No profession can stand still-this will raise standards.

I think he's right, and today I saw the ACTL (or was it the NAHT) welcoming it as increasing the professional standing of the.. profession. Anyway, one of the problems was said to be, what about the teachers with poor numeracy and literacy already working, and what about TAs.

"Currently primary teachers must have a GCSE in Maths and English and pass a skills test in both plus ICT, as well as having a degree, which presumably required higher order literacy skills in order to complete assignments"

mrz There are always people complaining about their child's teachers spelling. I haven't seen any complaining about numeracy.

But I think teachers should be paid more too - I think doing that, and increasingly the professional standing of teachers, will bring in a higher standard applicant.

No, I love my job. I'm in a fortunate position in that I work for an excellent Head Teacher. It riles me that Gove goes on and on about raising standards, as if all teachers are poorly educated with low aspirations. It just seems obvious to me that if he wants teaching to be something the top graduates seriously consider, he needs to make terms and salaries compete with the jobs those top graduates are currently going for. OK, so there are fantastically long (unpaid) holidays, but there are no expense accounts, so cars, none of the perks offered by the city firms. Teach First is often wheeled out as an example of a successful scheme to get these highly educated people into teaching, but I actually find the whole concept utterly depressing. Teach first, but then go off and have a proper career... Teach first, while you're thinking about what you really want to do... What is needed is just "Teach" not "Teach First". Make it a job people WANT.

I did a PGCE as a very mature career changer 4 years ago. I did find the tests easy and share the feeling towards those who didn't as the skills being tested were fairly basic and necessary for almost any job. BUT I have severe reservations about anything Gove says or does because so little thought seems to go into anything coming out of his dept. in particular, I worry that the focus will be on testing what is easiy testable (ie computer scored, no grey areas) rather than on identifying the actual and potential skills that are needed if someone is to develop into a good teacher.

My fear is heightened by this week having had to produce a marking scheme for a mock version of the new grammar test for Y6 children. The test didn't come from the DfE, but from a well known publisher, interpreting the few pronouncements there have been and anticipating what the actual test would look like. Despite having worked as a copywriter, edited academic journals, worked as a speech writer and achieved a distinction in my masters, I could not answer some of the questions. Finding the motivation to teach 10 year olds, many of whom have English as a second or third language, such useless and irrelevant "skills", when what they really need is the ability to communicate in real life situations, is proving challenging.

Maybe the most effective test would be one which asks "How willing are you to do something you believe to be completely pointless, and possibly counterproductive? And how would you stay positive and productive while being continually sniped at by politicians who change the goalposts for you and your students on a whim?