Should teachers have to take tougher tests before they qualify?

[Solopower1]

What do you think?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20083249

"nothing can be done until you rid me of this (large and growing) disruptive "minority". Give me the power to get them out of my classroom and let me teach"

I support this. But I think children are let down by the fact that there isn't enough rigorous routine earlier on in education. They should know the class room is not a place to chat, pince, poke, snigger, quietly bully, nudge, kick, push etc. Low level behaviour tolerated and even encouraged (in my opinion which might be crap) by classroom environments.

I'm a teacher.

The tests for " the brightest and the best" need to include:

Withstanding the cold: in a school where the heating takes 3 days to kick in.
Extreme admin: replying to 17 urgent emails while teaching y9 bottom set double lesson.

Only then can we know for sure who will cut it in the classroom.

Interesting headline from Sally Coates who led the review ?If our teachers can?t do basic maths, how can we expect our children to??

More here... www.schoolsimprovement.net/if-our-teachers-cant-do-basic-maths-how-can-we-expect-our-children-to/

Anything that contains "coveted profession" and "country?s best graduates now choosing this rewarding career." Isn't really all that its cracked up to be.

Ksmith: "learning through play".

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Fine - I don't mind taking another set of tests to keep my teaching post. However whilst we are running the test then everyone else who works in the public sector also has to take them. We can have a wholesale clear out of all the half-wits who work in the public sector - including all of the politicians. I don't want the bar lowered for any managerial idiots in local government and hospitals. Those that remain can then earn the right to higher pay.

Yes there was some stuff about Labour politicians not being able to do very basic maths. Ridiculous when some are in charge of budgets.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with learning through play
finding out about the world should be exciting
agree with the behaviour though, I have high behavioural expectations for my 4 year olds which they are more than capable of meeting, it is a let down to see them lining up quietly to go somewhere and the older children pushing past, jostling and yelling
a friend who is training recently got feedback for a lesson saying she should soften up her behavioural management
atm hessian is in and strict is out in early years
for the poster who mentioned extreme weather testing, yy we should definitely have that in eyfs!

For very tiny children yes. Beyond that.. meh.

Withstanding the cold: in a school where the heating takes 3 days to kick in.
Extreme admin: replying to 17 urgent emails while teaching y9 bottom set double lesson

Something else I havent had to deal with since shipping out of state schools. :)
.

Byrcie I agree that there are some schools that do not use the discipline methods at their disposal well . Often in the toughest schools I have seen well meaning teachers go soft on students because they felt sorry for them . I was never one of those teachers because coming from a tough chaotic background I know that I benefitted from discipline ,

I don't think we need extra sanctions but we need to use them well .

I find that very informative.

Ronaldo I know about tough classrooms, i I started my career in tough inner city schools . In my first year I was physically and sexually assaulted by pupils. My point was two fold:

Firstly schools like that are in a minority, studies show that the most common thing we deal with as teachers is low level disruption . I am not underplaying the harm that does to education but most of us are not being threatened.

Secondly there are teachers that can and do teach successfully in tough inner city schools. I accepted at the end of my first year that I was failing my pupils and I toughened up. Even in that environment , with support , I mostly had calm ordered lessons. However if the support from management wasn't there it would not have happened. Often poor management is to blame

nada nada... itsthe teachers fault,they are soft. I am big and strong and I take no prisoners (arisbottle). Yeah, Like hell you do. Tell it to someone who hasnt watched the all talk brigade.

Again its people like you aristbittle who maybe we hneed out of the profession - only maybe because I can only judge you from yoiur words here.

I knew a young teacher - a good teacher in my last school ( middle of the road but going downhill at the time. Now in SM). She was in tears in the office because she had sent for the removals team to take a disruptive child out of class ( he was a regular scroat - I make no apologies for calling himthat) . The manager spoke to the child and left him in her class. She had no sanction at all ..... but that was not why she cried. She cried because she found out that an hour earlier I had called removals and had the kid put into isolation for the dau ( with another manager). She could not understand why I could get action and she couldnt. Not only that she had an "aristbottle" in the same office saying how like she took no sh*t babe and it was all this teachers own fault for being "soft"

If we had fewer aristbottles in management and in classes and a stronger discipline team we might move forward. Its a big might because really a lot of these disruptive pupils need to be excluded permenantly to (a) give an example to the other kids it will not be tolerated in any account and (b) because it is time we got tough on them ...... and no, I dont care what happens to them. I care about the other 66% in my classroom.

Not putting a fine point on it - it isnt tolerated in a private school. Forget what you may have heard. We throw them out darn quick. I could share a few stories of how that is done too.

Ronaldo - I think you're being unfair on Arisbottle. She did point out that teachers need the support of management and that without it even the tough teachers can't cope in the tough schools.
As an aside, I was wondering how many teachers who go into teaching are good at management - I would have thought it would require a slightly different type of person.

Having said allof that, none of the new literacy and numeracy tests will deal with the problem. That needs some real political will and a more supportive attitude amongst teachers for each other.

I think the political will is coming Ronaldo. Do you sense it?

Now, when it comes to physical and sexual assault, even if the teachers can cope with it, is it fair to inflict it on the children?! No wonder people will move hell and high water to avoid their children going to a school where other children assault each other...

What an obnoxious post, Ronaldo.

You seem to not know the difference between state and private schools. Private schools can kick kids out easily - essentially, their parents are paying customers, and schools have that as their trump card - "thank you very much, take your custom elsewhere"

What do you suppose happens to the kids who are excluded permanently? I find it distasteful that, as a teacher, you can claim to "not care" about those kids. They're not sent to a campsite on the Isle of Wight to wait until they are 18.

What teachers need is a set of consistently applied, robust rules in their school. I teach in a school which has gone from good to satisfactory to SM and back up again over the last 8 years. When we went into SM, we had no consistently applied discipline policy. The HT had his head in the sand, and the OFSTED ruling was pretty much inevitable. Our current HT is good. She insists on standards, and insists that we all follow the same rules. Some of my colleagues are lazy, or feel they don't "need" to follow policy, and they tend to be the ones with problems.

Teachers also need to support each other.

Your "good job I shipped out of state schools" is repulsive. Well done, you.

I am anything but big and strong , I was a weak failing teacher who became stronger with the support of management . I also chose after I had my youngest to work in a much easier school . Hardly big and strong .
As some with responsibility for behaviour I would never undermine a teacher on front if staff , because I have been there myself . I have mafe reccomendations that children are excluded permanently. However I do care what happens to them afterwards,

I do think teachers have to be realistic about the kind of schools that they work in. Whilst I could teach with some success in a tough school , I know that I am much more successful in an easier school. I also couldn't have responsibility for behaviour in a tough school ,

Am I being unfair on her rabbitstew? Then I am sorry, she just reminded me of all the times I have seen that in the tough schools I worked in.

Funny thing is all those teachers have now left teaching and I am still here. So much for them telling me how good they were. I knewone who saidhow her classeswere always " disciplined and well controlled and calm". I used to teach in class opposite her. I took the liberty of watching her often( because she had duped everyone into making her an AST to boot!) when I was testing my sixth formers ( all was quiet in my class and I just stood watching the clock, timing papers and watching my "mentor". Yeah, were her classes calm ( not). I guess if you big yourself up enough in teaching everyone believes you even if you aint what you claim to be. But thats the problem. Those who say " its OK in my class - when it clearly probably isnt - undermine all those who want to say " we have a problem". In fact its indirect bullying. It makes others shut up for fear of being accused of incompetence . That is another problem in teaching that those skill tests wont cure.

Yes it does take a different type of person to have that management skill. Not many have both skill sets. I can do it but I prefer to teach.

Yes I care what happens to the "excluded" but not at the cost of the children who want to learn. The cost is too high to keep them in class.

What happens to the excluded is a separate issue to be dealt with once they are no longer stopping other children making the best of their education.

Sorry fat fingers on I phone, hence all the errors

Maybe, Brycie, but they are moved to other schools. Are you suggesting they should just be sent somewhere "else" (ie not another school?)

Ronaldo - you sound just as bad - bigging yourself up.

I do think teachers have to be realistic about the kind of schools that they work in. Whilst I could teach with some success in a tough school , I know that I am much more successful in an easier school. I also couldn't have responsibility for behaviour in a tough school

Me too. But I got out too - eventuallywhen I wised up to the fact that my "helping" was misplaced. That osprobably why I am so obnoxious and cant care for those disruptive kids anymore. The caring has been all used up in me. I only care about those who suffer because of them. We have more than a few of those in my current school Bright and slightly dim but nice
"Failure to thrive" in the local comp classroom and desperate parents come to us. But we charge fees - and that just isnt fair either. What is needed is for the state school to be more like us.