Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

Those of you in favour of grammar schools, come and tell me what to say to my Ds...

999 replies

seeker · 19/08/2012 10:34

He woke up crying in the night because the reality had just hit him that he won't be going to school with his close friends in September because he failed the 11+ in September. "I can't be very bright, can I mum, or I would have passed" " no, it was just one of those things-you're going to a good school, you'll be fine" "I know- but if i was clever I'd be going to school with X and Y" "You are clever- look at your SATs-you'll be in the top set at the high school because of those" " it's not SATS that are important, though, it's the 11+"

Do you want to have more kids feeling like that? Then campaign for more grammar schools,

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 19/08/2012 19:39

I think dd is lucky as the difference to Seeker's son is that she will remain with her friends. I imagine if her friends had passed and got a place and she hadn't she would be distraught. Though she was quite happy at leaving them when she knew she'd passed. Hmm Grin

Bintang · 19/08/2012 19:40

seeker, forgive me, but was he tutored for exam technique?

I am amazed your schools take 23%! more like 5% here...

flexybex · 19/08/2012 19:40

seeker I know exactly where you're coming from. Have been through it with ds, and see the damaging effects of the test (on parents and children) year on year at school.

I think the all time low was seeing a trembling child being led into the hall after 3 years' of 11+ tutoring, scared to death that she wouldn't pass - scared to death, because her parents had threatened that she would have to quit guides if she didn't pass, as the sec modern school was too far from the meeting venue.

Greythorne · 19/08/2012 19:41

Seeker - what happens when your son realizes he is not the best swimmer in his gang of friends? Or when one of his pals gets scouted by Models One because he is taller and better looking than your son? Or he fails his driving test first time? Or needs to get a brace because his teeth are crooked?

You cannot protect your son from disappointment in life.

He is learning a lesson in how to bounce back after disappointment. You should be incredibly delighted that he is bright and that his secondary mod is good and that you are confident he will do well.

Loads of people have children who will never do well because they are just not academic. You post that he will be fine and that you are not worried about him but you use him as a political point winner in your idealogical battle against grammars.

If you are really unconcerned about your son's prospects at secondary modern, why use him as your main argument? Surely that undermines your point? Only if you were convinced poor teaching, disillusioned teachers and crappy GCSE options at his new school would mean he would leave with a C in Hotel Management and that's all would it make sense to complain. But you are quick to tell us he will be fine.

What gives?

gelatinous · 19/08/2012 19:41

children that age are very able to make a drama out of whatever life throws at them. The strange thing is all too often just a few years down the line they'll deny it all adamantly.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/08/2012 19:43

Seeker, he will make new friends. I was the only child from my school to pass the 11plus and go to the grammar so I knew nobody. I made good friends within the first week.

I remember it being so bloody divisive though. The other kids in the village never spoke to me again - so fairly miserable holidays and weekends when you're 10 miles from your mates and no bus route.

Original poster
seeker · 19/08/2012 19:46

And no I wann't being cynical. I am grateful
For the advice- my Ds was very upset and so was I- I had worked very hard, I thought, to protect him from the pervading sense in our town that going to the high school is something to becomiserated on. And the ridiculous incredulity of everyone he knows- up to and including the teacher I mentioned. But obviously I failed and
He has been taking it to heart. However, there is nothing wrong with also
Reminding people that more selection will
Mean more unhappy children,

OP posts:
jabed · 19/08/2012 19:46

jabed I believe seeker has already said that there are no comps in her area. In my area you have the choice of Grammar or SM - only

She has a choice - she can move.

CecilyP · 19/08/2012 19:51

^Seeker - what happens when your son realizes he is not the best swimmer in his gang of friends? Or when one of his pals gets scouted by Models One because he is taller and better looking than your son? Or he fails his driving test first time? Or needs to get a brace because his teeth are crooked?

You cannot protect your son from disappointment in life.^

But you can still go to the same pool as the best swimmers even if you are pootling around the shallow end. Getting scouted by Models One would be such an amazing opportunity that no-one would be expecting, so couldn't be disappointed if it didn't happen. If you fail your driving test first time, you can try again in a few weeks. No special schools for kids with crooked teeth either.

To some extent, I agree that seeker is making too much of it and, although her DS is disappointed, he will be fine. She has said that the school is good - well there are definitely worse, anyway. Though I was shocked at the 'I didn't expect to see you here' remark - how thoughtless can you get.

Eve · 19/08/2012 19:52

Happy to tell him he's in top set at the comp, so what's the difference, why you so happy telling him he's better than those in lower sets?

CecilyP · 19/08/2012 19:54

Jabed, you do not know seeker's circumstances, so you cannot say whether she can move or not.

Greythorne · 19/08/2012 19:58

CecilyP
but Seeker keeps telling us that the school is great and her son will do fine.

So why should she be worried other than for appearances sake? Other people in her town think the grammar is a big deal, but seeker knows her son will do well. That's my point.

It only makes sense for seeker to whinge if her som is likely to do materially worse at his allocates school.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/08/2012 20:13

It also makes sense for Seeker to "whinge" if she's worried it's affecting her sons emotional well being, that his friendships will suffer, etc. they're all valid concerns.

Greythorne · 19/08/2012 20:19

Well quite. Just as he might be affected by his friends all being better swimmers or footballers or any one of a million things that can happen in life.

Whilst the school he has been allocated to is good (albeit without a madrigal group), I really think seeker needs to move on and stop the negativity which really can bugger up her son's life.

Greythorne · 19/08/2012 20:20

My point is this:

Unless seeker tells us the school her son is going to is crap, the only issue is one of keeping up appearances with the parents of those going grammar.

thebestisyettocome · 19/08/2012 20:21

I do sympathise but if seeker's ds is bright he clearly hasn't performed well at the right time and as awful and traumatic as it is he can turn this around and learn an important lesson. The chances are he'll realise that in order to succeed he has to apply himself. It's a lesson lots of children will learn later on in their academic careers which is why so many children don't get the GCSE and A level results they should.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/08/2012 20:25

But his friends been better swimmers wouldn't separate him from his friends the way being split into different schools does.

kilmuir · 19/08/2012 20:30

but happy to be separated if means her DS gets into school she wants.
Can't support and tutor for selection then complain about system when does not turn out way you expected

thebestisyettocome · 19/08/2012 20:30

From what I can gather seeker's dc are incredibly lucky. They have an intelligent, professional mother, they live in a nice part of the UK in a house most people would dream of and have a pony. I think her ds will be fine tbh.

ReallyTired · 19/08/2012 20:34

Seeker, I am sorry you are getting messages from completely clueless peopel.

Seeker's son is bright. He got level 6s in his SATs. That is gifted by most of the the UK's standards. A child is expected to make at least 2/3 a level a year in progress. How is a secondary modern going to differentiate for a level 6 child when there will hardly be any children with more than a level 4. Academically seeker's son will be four years ahead of his classmates.

I don't think that seeker is being hyprocritical. The 11 plus is not a test of intelligence. Measuring intelligence can't be done by a primative test on one day. All that grammar schools test is the ablity to do verbal and numerical reasoning. How many adults have to circle the odd word out or decipher a pattern of spots during their working day?

"The chances are he'll realise that in order to succeed he has to apply himself. It's a lesson lots of children will learn later on in their academic careers which is why so many children don't get the GCSE and A level results they should. "

We are talking about the 11 plus, not GCSEs. Supposely the eleven plus can't be tutored for. Frankly if seekers son managed to get level 6s in his sats there can't be any problems with him applying himself to school work.

Original poster
seeker · 19/08/2012 20:40

Greythorne- he is fully aware of that- he is a sportsman and a musician and is well aware of people better and worse than him at things. What have I said that indicates otherwise?

OP posts:
Greythorne · 19/08/2012 20:42

reallytired
no, not patronizing at all

Greythorne · 19/08/2012 20:46

I can't see which bit of my point is unclear.

If the school he is going to is a good one as you say it is and he will do well there as you say he will then the comparisons with others by friends, neighbors, teachers etc. Are only as meaningful as comparisons about swimming and who is on the first XI etc.

Ie not very meaningful at all.

thebestisyettocome · 19/08/2012 20:50

ReallyTired
I think we are all aware of how bright seeker's son is given that she often tells us, and now, you are too. Surely if he's four years ahead of his peers at the sm and the 11+ can't be 'tutored for' he should've passed? The fact he didn't means that he perhaps approached the whole thing in a too relaxed frame of mind. it's a classic trap a lot of 'really bright' children fall into, at GCSE, A level and 11+ level.

DontmindifIdo · 19/08/2012 20:56

But as i said up thread - living in a non-selective area doesn't mean your DCs won't be sent to different secondary schools to their classmates- friendships often suffer after DCs are sent to different schools, regardless if they are officially similar types of schools.

Definately try to get him to spend some time with DCs who are going to the same school.

I question why you chose to put your DCs into the 11+ if you are sure they'd do well at the high school and you don't agree with labeling them 'successful/failure' at 10 - you could have opted out of that all together. Many parents in Kent do just that. You made the choice that you'd like him to go to the grammar school so put him in for the exam. In fact, if a large enough percentage of parents chose not to put their DCs into the 11+, it would spell the end of the system.