Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?

[Emily19]

Hello,
I am currently studying on an access to Teacher Training course. I intend to research "Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?".

Any Information given is completely confidential, if you require a copy of any work I have used, I will be more than happy to supply you with a copy. (In your opinion)

• What are your views on Social class affecting attainment in schools?

• What are your views on Gender affecting attainment in schools?

-Which do you think has the greater influence?

Many Thanks

I should point out that there are compensations to being a PE teacher. Dp does very little marking. So, he may have to spend hours doing cricket fixtures in the summer but he does not have hours of essays to mark. It's swings and roundabouts isn't it? We have to respect that teachers have some idea what they're letting themselves in for and they should only opt for teaching if they think they're going to enjoy it and be able to cope.

I think, like Yellowstone, it's hard to see how you could be a good teacher given your attitude to time and money.

More worryingly for me is your attitude to students with SEN or those who have difficult backgrounds. It's very clear you lack sympathy and in fact your posts suggest that you resent such students.

Your posts about being unable to understand why some students might need more time and input (unless the teacher was incompetent) was also deeply troubling.

It's also strange that you seem to have so little awareness of the way things work in most schools as regards extra-curricular activities for example.

Maybe you are a really good teacher in the school that you're in now which obviously doesn't expect much outside the classroom and obviously has students who are motivated and/or from wealthy backgrounds but it's very clear to see why you struggled to cope in the state sector.

Sorry, that post directed at jabed.

Marking place to read later... Haven't really formalised my views yet so I'll steal everyone else's

Oh fivecandles , that really is unfair.

I spent most of my teaching career in the most deprived schools in the country. But then, as you say, I was not asked to do anything beyond ensure we met the exam targets. I didnt do extra curricular activities ( they didnt have any ). I didnt do SEN ( although the school had a 35% intake of statemented pupils). Although most of the bottom sets were very challenged and challenging.

None were well motivated. My job was to ensure we reached the % of 5 A - C after an ofsted put the school into special measures. I did what I was asked to do. I didnt draw on any extra time in those schools but I was probably result for result better in those schools.

You are quite right it is easy teaching in my current school. Its the way I like it.
I cannot see where you get your ideas about my attitude to money. I havent got one as such so I think you have misinterpreted somewhere.
I work part time. I am paid for the hours I teach as a subject specialist
(academic staff its called where I work) . I earn 10K a year. I could earn more in many places outside and inside education if I were motivated to do so but I believe that I have a role to play in my current school. I know the children there need good teachers as much as any others and I am willing to give them all the help they need, including tuition after school ( but they never need or want it) . I am amply rewarded by their motivation and their attainments.

They aspire to do well. I aspire to help them. It works well.

As for my attitude to the job, I no longer make my job my life, its true. I have a little DS who is most important in my life and a DW who I value above all things.

Just because I do not share your ideas about SEN and giving children more input doesnt mean I am not good at what I do or that I am not a good teacher. I do though question how much extra time given for those who need that additional input is well spent - from experience.

Quite often many of the battles teachers are having with time and input are a result of social class issues and attitudes. The teachers are not necessarily incompetent as such but they are obviously unsupported in their main task - that of teaching. Classroom problems and the problems of the children make for a difficult teaching and learning situation.

Of course you may not like that. I specialise in GCSE and A level results, not in teaching SEN. That I leave to those who can do it and do it well. It wasnt what I entered teaching to do. Neither did I go into teaching to give massive amounts of extra hours.

I give as much as it takes. I probably work a lot smarter rather than longer hours.

I am sorry you do not like that. Now maybe you will give this a rest and discuss the topic of the thread with others instead of keep addressing me. Thanks.

I have other things I need to get on with ( which includes making a list of what DW and I want from a school for our DS).

At the moment I'm teaching extra sessions to help students who are re-sitting AS or A2 units. I'm doing this because I care about them and their results and their ability to get into their chosen universities and I care about my results as a HoD. Some of these students were unlucky 1st time around, some had harsh examiners, some weren't ready in terms of their maturity or approach and they need a bit of extra help.

I could say the same but I dont make excuses. When they didnt do well ( many years ago for me now) I knucked down and worked out why and sorted it out so that they did do well. I taught them and did whatever had to be done to do that. But it never included extra classes. Firstly most students resent having to do that especially if they are trying already and secondly it never seemed to be necessary.

I dont want to sound smug - but neither in my current school nor in any others - including that one in special measures have my AS and A2 students had to re sit their exams. I always manage to get A - C ( A Level) grades for them on the first go. If they dont, more often than not we make up the difference on the next paper rather than re sit the first one again.

So that makes me a rubbish teacher. I care about my results more than anything else. I do not accept anything less than 100% pass rates and nothing below a C in my teaching groups and never have. I have always achieved it.

I think regardless of class the majority of parents just want the best for their child. Yes there is an underclass who take no responsibility for their offsprings and have little or no interest in their future but fortunately they are still a minority.

I would argue that parental support/involvement/interest is a much more important factor than either gender or social class in educational success.

I agree completely with Mrz. It's all about the parents, (but not their social class).

'Just because I do not share your ideas about SEN and giving children more input '

I'm not sure that you know my views about SEN but, yes, I certainly believe students with SEN should have more input when they need it.

My dd has a hearing impairment which means she sometimes needs extra time to go over work that she might not have heard properly.

I am thankful that her teacher is more than willing to do this.

I teach all sorts of students with all sorts of SEN who also require more input. It would not occur to me to tell them that I wouldn't do this unless I were paid extra.

Yes, you continue to give me grounds to think that you are not what I would consider to be a 'good teacher'. In fact, I find your attitude quite upsetting.

'I cannot see where you get your ideas about my attitude to money'

Erm, that would be your comments about not being willing to do any work that wasn't directly paid for that I'm referring to.

And there are other comments about money which I find quite distasteful on this thread about the cuts, for example.

In fact, you yourself said you were aware that you were sounding crass and insensitive!

'Of course you may not like that. I specialise in GCSE and A level results, not in teaching SEN. '

Objectionable. I also specialise in teaching GCSE and A Level.

Strangely enough some of my students at GCSE and A Level including those aiming for A grades have SEN!!!

I'm teaching an incredibly talented boy at the moment with dyslexia.

The more you write the more I wonder whether you really are a teacher and what sort of training you have had.

mrz I agree completely with your second point. So many examples prove it.

But slipshod it can never be all about parents; parents need really, really good teachers.

And the children need both.

'Of course you may not like that. I specialise in GCSE and A level results, not in teaching SEN. That I leave to those who can do it and do it well. It wasnt what I entered teaching to do. Neither did I go into teaching to give massive amounts of extra hours. '

So, you don't want to teach kids with SEN or without motivation. You don't want to devote many hours to it. You don't want to do any work unless it's being paid for directly.

And you wonder why people assume that you are not a good teacher??

Sheesh, you give the profession a bad name.

'I have other things I need to get on with ( which includes making a list of what DW and I want from a school for our DS).'

I wonder, do you want your own child to be taught by teachers who share your attitudes? Especially teachers who wouldn't be prepared to give him any extra time? Or participate in extra-curricular activities?

I wouldn't.

and teachers need good parents

'I dont want to sound smug - but neither in my current school nor in any others - including that one in special measures have my AS and A2 students had to re sit their exams. I always manage to get A - C ( A Level) grades for them on the first go. If they dont, more often than not we make up the difference on the next paper rather than re sit the first one again. '

I'm sure that will be a great deal of comfort for one of my Oxbridge students who vomited in the middle of her Unit 1 paper and therefore achieved a B when she is capable of A* and for my student whose father left her mother for another woman and refused to acknowledge her at all in the weeks leading up to her exams!

You do sound smug and you sound extremely unpleasant.

I feel a large majority of teachers is capable of doing and is quite willing to do a decent job with children if home life inculcates the right approach, so for me, that is where it matters.
My expression was a bit flippant, I own, but as far as a simplistic generalization may be true, age and experience has shown me that this one is, regardless of socio economic circumstances.

I wonder, do you want your own child to be taught by teachers who share your attitudes? Especially teachers who wouldn't be prepared to give him any extra time? Or participate in extra-curricular activities?

I would be more than happy if teachers did their jobs. I dont need them to do extra hours. I dont want them living my DS's life for him. He is my boy. I will worry about his other needs. I am his father, not the teacher.

But Jabed doing our jobs involves supporting every child's needs and for some children that means giving them extra time and failing to recognise the need would be failing in our duty of care.

Agree, completely mrz. Teaching is not the sort of job where you can ever say, 'That's it. Job done.' once you leave the classroom. I just can't imagine having that sort of attitude and fortunately I can't remember any other teachers having that attitude either. Doing the job is about responding to students' needs as well as you possibly can and that can never be limited to what happens during lesson time and during the school day.

It's interesting jabed that you weren't satisfied with your son's previous school and I also notice that your son is still very little. Maybe your son actually did go to a school where teachers shared your attitude or not wanting to go that extra mile to support him? Or maybe your son is so little that you've just not yet had an occasion where he would need any extra time. However, I would ask you to think ahead. Can you seriously never envisage a moment when your son might need extra attention? Perhaps because he's been ill and missed some crucial work or because a teacher might wish him to redraft coursework when he's older or even because he's coping so well that he might benefit from some additional work??

And if he did need extra time how would you feel if a teacher didn't give it to him? Or clearly resented this time?

It's the teachers who give up this time freely and without even really thinking about it who are really good teachers and again, I've never met one who resented this sort of time.

My dcs' school offer a programme for gifted children where one lunchtime a week they are taught together as a group and look at work that is beyond the curriculum. This is in addition to the work they do in class that is differentiated. This sort of thing just cannot be done in the normal classroom but it is the sign of really good teaching and a really good school which is truly responding to the needs of all its pupils.

I consider the time I spend outside the classroom e.g. suggesting books to a particular student, talking about university choices to another, helping another understand who to turn a piece of coursework from a low A to an A* hugely valuable.

It is not the case that students need extra time because they are lazy or inadequate in some way (which is strongly implied by many of your posts and which is an attitude that I find deeply troubling in a teacher). Sometimes it's' actually because they're extremely able or have been ill or find one particular concept tricky.

This thread has gone ridiculously out of point and for far too long (90%?); monstrously inappropriate to what Emily was asking and yet, she was chastised for all sorts of inappropriateness in her lead post.

To be fair Emily started 3 threads on the same topic and hasn't returned to any.

I didn't know that there were rule about sticking to the point and not allowing threads to get too long on a discussion site.

There is quite a big difference between informal chatting and writing an academic essay.

This thread has gone ridiculously out of point and for far too long (90%?);

I agree.