Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?

[Emily19]

Hello,
I am currently studying on an access to Teacher Training course. I intend to research "Does social class over power gender at attainment in schools?".

Any Information given is completely confidential, if you require a copy of any work I have used, I will be more than happy to supply you with a copy. (In your opinion)

• What are your views on Social class affecting attainment in schools?

• What are your views on Gender affecting attainment in schools?

-Which do you think has the greater influence?

Many Thanks

As a teacher do you consider yourself working class or middle class?

"As a teacher do you consider yourself working class or middle class?"

mrz - are you addressing this question to me or to the teachers in general here?

in general
as a teacher I consider myself to be working class as I work to earn a wage but wondered where in the class system others see themselves

mrz, I am happy for you to disagree and I accept that is the nature of the debate.

There are historically some froups within the working class ( skilled working classes as the research shows) who are interested in furthering their childrens education. This is one of those groups who can be let down by the state system and who are failed. They in fact become the epitomy of exactly how important social class is in terms of furthering achievement and demonstrate why social class is such a powerful force in my experience and opinion.

I often feel for them. I guess they were the kinbd of kids I expected state schools to be full of and who I felt I wanted to help in my 20 odd years of teaching. I dont intend that to sound patronizing although as it is written it may sound that way. I genuinely cared.

mrz.
Funny thing social class. I do not necessarily see my role as a teacher as defining my social class at all to be honest. Since I work in an independent school (one which considers itself of top repute too) I buy into the middle class values and middle class culture there as do all of my colleagues
(without exception I am sure). Many of them come from middle class backgrounds themselves anyway (as do I). Most of us also had previous careers in middle class occupations = at least where I work and I think that is fairly true of a lot of independent schools of a similar kind to mine.

That said, as I said earlier, class isnt necessarily defined by occupation. Its about behaviour and attitude and a certain type of manners and speech
(even) and the kind of education you have received and if you like
"culture" Lifestyle and choices within lifestyle. Its more than the sum of a job for a few years.

How other teachers outside of my very middle class sphere see themselves I cannot say. It would be interesting to read their views on that

Of course, your position , mez - that eceryone who works for a living is working class is Marxist in origin. He would argue that my petite bourgoise position is false class consciousness. I could continue but I would prefer to see other views.

mez - that eceryone who works for a living is working class is Marxist in origin. He would argue that my petite bourgoise position is false class consciousness. I could continue but I would prefer to see other views.

Sorry old , fat hands press the wrong keys easily. mrz and everyone amongst other typo's there.

I'm certainly not a Marxist and by your definition come from a middle class background ...

My observation of summer school (at high school level) in the US is that the summer school classes were indeed taught by the regular teachers, and they were paid for their summer work. By contrast with the normal term time classes, summer school classes cost the students a fee (usually somewhere in the $200 range for a course of 6 weeks or so). Students used the summer school classes to pass a class they had failed during the regular school year, to earn a credit in a subject like Art that they couldn't fit into their regular schedule, or to satisfy a graduation requirement that they couldn't fit into the term time schedule (for a class such as Health for instance), or to try to advance to a higher level of a certain subject like maths.

There were strict rules about attendance if you missed any of the first three or last three days of the course you earned a F (fail) and if you missed any three days overall you also earned an F. No refunds were issued for reasons of non-attendance without a medical emergency or death in the family. There were two sessions each day, 7:30 to 10:00 and 10:00 to 12:30. Homework was assigned and had to be handed in. Oldest DD did maths and a history course in the summer between the end of grade school and the first year of HS. She had 56 problems to tackle for homework the first day and a huge pile of documents related to her history course to read and annotate. They piled it on for the whole 6 weeks. The following summer she did photography and was thus able to supplement her portfolio. Summer school was very popular in that particular school you had to get your application in as soon as registration opened.

But this was a suburban school in a middle class community where lots of parents really, really cared about their children's education. I don't think the same sort of setup would fly in every community. Missingfriendsandsad, I agree with your insights into the dynamics of low or non-achievement in some communities.

jabed, once again, I think you need to be aware that your experience of teaching in the state sector is not everyone's. And TBH you do sound a bit like you're bleating. Teachers are on a good wage and are in the enviable situation of having 13 weeks holiday a year together with a final salary pension scheme. I'm a teacher too and I don't share your attitudes.

'And also, not many of us are demonstrating the clarity and discipline of thought needed in an essay!'

Er, we're not writing an essay. The OP is!!

'I cannot answer you as to what I think should happen to all those with behavioural and learning difficulties in state schools.'

I think that's a shame. As a society we have a responsibility for these children too and I think they deserve as much attention and as good an education as the children with supportive parents and money. And I think you definitely made the right decision to move to the private sector.

'The whole thing about the middle middle classes ( or the middling sort as they might once have been called) is that they never seem to be affected by recession and their offspring are relatively unaffected by unemployment. '

WTF???

I think many behavioural issues in schools (not only state schools have problems) could be addressed if teachers had the power and parental support to deal with them rather than having our hands tied.

math, that's the sort of system that I think would be helpful here although I don't think there should be any penalty for students who don't make the grade. I don't see why summer schools can't be supportive instead of punitive and particularly geared to enabling students to meet basic targets for their year group. I think in small groups outside of the normal school context students often perform much better. And there's plenty of research to suggest the long summer holidays have a particulalry negative effect on struggling students and those without supportive parents.

Unlike previous recessions, the current economic downturn has been toughest on "white collar" workers
SECTOR JOB LOSSES JUNE-NOV '08
Management/consulting 22,038
Mechanical repairs/installation 21,721
Water transport 16,087
Civil engineering 14,849
Sports and leisure 10,516
Membership organisations 8,291
Drinks manufacture 6,846
Broadcasting 6,741

Sorry to pop your 'I'm so hard done by' bubble but £28K is more than 60% of the country earn, and nearly three times the wage of the biggest cohort of workers - get a grip.

Mrz - like your compatriate here , you do not seem to quite grasp who the "middling sort" to use the olden phrase (middle class) really are. Maybe that is why you see yourself as working class?

The middle classes are a broad group. In the 20th century they certainly expanded considerably with beurocracy and public sector work , at least in the lower ranks. I would hardly define the real middle class as "white collar" workers or public sector workers myself , although in more recent times I suppose they have become what could be descrived as the lower middle classes . Such a group most sociologists I have read agree have more in common with working class than with middle class both in aspiration and lifestyle, hence they have been known by the media types and the ad men as "C1 and C2".

The middling sort are the true middle class- professionals and larger business owners. These can include bankers ( those who get the big bonuses) and stockbrokers and certainly university lecturers, doctors, accountants, solicitors etc. I was amongst those before marrying and needing to put my family first which is when I switched to teaching for the hours and holidays) .

Yes, I guess top civil servants and public servants are there as would be the top brass in the armed forces but not the vast majority of those in white collar and clerical type jobs. These top people do not by and large suffer from recession. They may cut back a little but never suffer unless through their own mismanagement of their affairs. The unemployment tends to take place on the fringes in the lower middle class and amongst the working class. Hence my original comment.

I am a member of the middle class. My parents came from that group. I was educated accordingly. I aspired accordingly and my lifestyle follows through as does my housing situation and all other thngs (I suppose). I see myself in those terms because I do come from that group. I married into it also. Teaching is just something I do now. It does not determine my lifestyle as it happens.

I do not intend to sound snobbish but no doubt I will get accused of same.

Saying one is middle class and then describing said group is rather like bot being able to say much about how we could further the situation in state schools and how to deal with EBD's etc. Its not politically correct top be middle class I know.

There is no reason to swear fivecandles. Even if you do shorten the term. Its not polite.

Apologies if I offended you. I don't usually swear I was just absolutely gobsmocked that somebody could have so little understanding of the impact of the recession!

Actually the reason I don't see myself as middle class is because my grandparents were business owners so true middle class by your definition whereas I am a working professional jabed.

missingfriendsand sad - the 28K I earned then was a fraction of what I was earning in my previous job. But then I fogot to add, when I was asked to do all those revision classes I was actually working part time ( I am still working part time and that is a choice I am able to make) . My actual pay packet was about 10K then - and I was expected ( no, it was demanded actually) that I also run those additional classes. NO , has to be the answer in that situation.

I now earn a little more ( for fewer hours) but the big differences come in the way I am treated. I have autonomy over my life, my teaching and how I run my department. None of these can exist in a system where lessons are delivered and a National Curriculum is in operation. I am treated and paid as a professional teacher now. I have respect. Teachers in state schools comand little of that I am afraid.

Heck. I need to change the batteries in the keyboard. Sorry about all the typos and missing letters etc.

My old hands arent helping either ( pressing two keys together etc). Must do more to proof read. Apologies

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7749423/Middle-class-finances-hardest-hit-by-recession.html
The number of professional families, retired couples with good incomes, and young City workers who were declared insolvent surged last year.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237662/Professionals-hit-middle-class-recession.html

oddly enough the FT regards lawyers city bankers and corporate directors as white collar

mrz. what are you trying to prove?

I said
a) whilst all bankers etc. might be considered "white collar workers", not all are middle class. So, yes the FT see them as white collar. It didnt differentiate the middle class from the rest. Many have more in common with working class in terms of income and lifestyle ( although I wouldnt like to comment on aspiration as I do not know) Just what the sociologists tell us. Not out of my head.

b) Many people may have taken a drop in income as a result of the recession but as in all recessions, those affected are mainly those who are on the fringes of the middle class ( or are working classes) rather than those who are solidly middle class. Nothing in the old DM there to suggest otherwise.

People on the fringes do take the cuts.

I too have taken some knocks in my income but not enough that I cannot keep my DW and DS comfortably. We havent had to make much in the way of cut backs at all. Neither I might say have most of the parents of children in my school.

The school did think there might be a problem with children being withdrawn as the recession hit but it didnt happen. I had a pay freeze for two years because of that. I am pleased to say this year, we all got a small pay rise to bring us back into line again. School roll has actually increased. So many of those middle class people are not hit so substantially as you might like to think. ( they never are to be truthful).

I'm not trying to prove anything jabed

your school is lucky I know a number of independent schools in this area have let staff go because of falling role and a good friend has had her hours drastically cut and is considering whether to move her children to state schools