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Education

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top grammar vs top private

196 replies

darleneconnor · 02/02/2011 17:32

For argument sake say you had to choose between a top (ie top 20) state grammar and a top private school which would you go for?

Assume no financial constraints and no objections to the principle of private education.

OP posts:
Feegle · 03/02/2011 17:52

Lucky you ! Yes it wasn't for long but it was not fun. No heating or water in all that snow [shiver]

jonicomelately · 03/02/2011 18:23

LOL earlier when walking past the local private school.

Further to my earlier comment about how first generation immigrants and builders sent their kids to private school.....

Just saw an Asian bloke sat in a battered white van waiting for his child to come out of school Grin

I so wanted to take a photograph to prove the doubters wrong.

duchesse · 03/02/2011 18:30

sigma- Colyton is the top in Devon, the South West and in the top 20 in Britain. What earthly difference does it make what I say? Why would someone leaving the school with a string of A*s mean that she had an axe to grind? Are you cross with me because I have uncannily managed to single out the two schools your children go to? We were also turned down by Kings (out of catchment) but I still it's an honest school that doesn't mess around with figures and would never say anything negative about it any way because I have never heard anything negative about it. The worst reports I've ever had on Kings were not all that damning- that it failed to cope with the needs of an acquaintance's little girl with AS, and she would have struggled in most schools tbh.

duchesse · 03/02/2011 18:34

re nagaitve gossip- as my old Head used to say- good gossip never travels as far as bad gossip. And I'm not quite sure what you mean by "gossip"- it's called talking to other parents and getting information. You'd have to be mad or stupid to trust your child's schooling to an Ofsted report and a few league tables. What are, public affairs manager for Devon schools. So what if my information doesn't match yours? Does that make you right and me wrong?

Getting a bit pissed frankly with being hounded, especially in a county as small as Devon where everyone is about two steps away from everyone else. I'm leaving this thread now before I get really cross.

Feegle · 03/02/2011 18:54

duchesse no one is really right or wrong here, different schools suit different children so even in the best schools one or two will be unhappy. Best of luck with all of your children anyway Smile

duchesse · 03/02/2011 19:53

You are right feegle. The school that my children used to go picked up way more than its fair share of children who'd had a sh1t time in other schools (and incidentally they did extremely well at that school) so a lot of my gossipmongers "informants" may not have had a standard experience of them (shockingly not in some cases). Just because their experience is not the norm does not mean that their experiences are to be discounted though- I tend to feel that if a school professes to be inclusive it truly should be that.

TheMartorialist · 03/02/2011 20:04

I'm sorry, but who are these ever important "contacts" that people speak of at private school? I'm sure it applies in some cases, but certainly not all.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/02/2011 20:35

Some sort of OB mafias. Evidently there's a catholic one, goodness knows why anyone would want to join that, then there's the more obvious Eton mess.

And unfortunately all too many are indeed Old Boys.

I'm all in favour of independent schools a free market alternative to the state, but there's something about the public school 'contacts' which really is unhealthy.

Litchick · 03/02/2011 21:12

In terms of young people trying to get started...
Well if you want a particular work placement you'll need a contact.
If you want an internship, you'll need a contact.
If you want an overseeing doctor as a med student, you'll need a contact.

Obviously the word need is the tricky devil here. There are ways to crack on without them. But by God is it easier with them.

TheMartorialist · 03/02/2011 21:14

I can't say I see the problem with having and/or using contacts, but it's rather disingenuous to claim that it's only public/private school attendees that indulge in such behaviour. My neighbour (who is a general builder) has an apprentice who is the son of an old school friend. I don't see that people would get all up-in-arms about this, yet add on a few zeros to his general income or a "posher" accent and it's suddenly the worst thing that could ever happen.

I went to a private school. I can't say that any "contacts" got me into the university I ended up in or the job I'm about to start (trainee solicitor at a City law firm). The "contacts" I have utilised in the past almost invariably were former work colleagues in the public sector and/or recruiters from agencies I'd previously been signed up with. I can see that some university friends that I have stayed in touch with may prove invaluable in the future on a professional basis, but they didn't attend the same school(s) as I did. The same applies to those that I am currently doing the LPC with.

Litchick · 03/02/2011 21:17

Very true.
It always amuses me that folk will slag off the old school tie yet will fall over themselves to ask favour of DH and I.

Really we don't mind. But the hypocrisy is fucking galling.

Acanthus · 03/02/2011 22:32

Yes we're all thick as pig shit up here, lacking in intellectual confidence and travelling in builders' vans. Amazing I can put the apostrophe in that, really. And all the private schools are crap, of course.

peteneras · 04/02/2011 06:59

Apologies to the OP for being off topic(?) but a couple of queries need answering:

GrimmaTheNome
The Eton and Harrows (etc) are a mystery to me. How does it work, does Lord so-and-so still 'put Fred down for Eton' before he's born, and then Fred gets in even if he's dim? (sorry, off topic but its something that DH and I were puzzling about the other day)

Those seem to be the places needed for real 'contacts' in politics etc.... are most of them still all-boys?

No Grimma, Fred may still not get in even if he?s super bright. There?s this small matter of an interview or two, besides the Common Entrance. The practice of putting his name down by dad, Lord Soso even before Fred is born, has now been consigned to history, oh, I would say, for at least a decade now. Fred would be just another one of some 800 boys (yes, it?s all boys only) competing for one of the 260 or so places each year.

codinbatter
You can't generalise. you have to fit the child to the school unless it's something off-the-scale like Eton where they get very personalised learning. or so i'm told. peternas will know.

Depends on what you mean by ?personalised learning?. Yes, boys are streamed according to their abilities in each subject into different divisions (class). For example, for a ?compulsory? subject like (say) Maths, you may have four classes of the 1st Division each comprising of 14 boys; in other words, the School views these 56 boys are of the same ability. The next group will form the 2nd division and so forth. Obviously, for a less popular subject like (say) Ancient Greek, there will be less classes with much fewer boys.

Each boy is assigned a personal Tutor, usually a senior Master, who oversees the boy?s overall academic work and also has pastoral care of the boy. They meet at least once a week usually in the evening in a small group (5 or 6) at the tutor?s residence for an hour or so. It?s not all work and no play, of course, sometimes the tutor brings his tutees to the theatre at nearby Windsor or even a day out in London during the weekend; or perhaps a meal at the local Italian restaurant, etc. The idea is to engage the boys with the outside world and to discuss anything that may be of interest that they may pick up.

Needless to say, all the bills including the school fees etc., add up to the boy?s School Account which is then sent to the boy?s family at the end of each term which inevitably would trigger a few heart attacks on some parents especially those who drive battered white builders' vans.Shock Grin

The Tutor reports back to the boy?s House Master each term. It is the House Master who communicates with the boy?s parents about the boy?s progress or otherwise. I hasten to add, at the boy?s House, there is this very important person, the ?Dame? or matron who is about the only female figure close to the boys in this all-male environment - there are some female Masters, yes, they are still called Masters but they come and go. The Dame is the surrogate mother, if you like, to the boys; attending to the welfare and needs that a mother would to her son(s) e.g. prescribing medicine, patching up that torn pair of socks, etc. She is also an invaluable source of (unofficial) information about the goings-on at the School. Get on her right side and your DS will have a very happy time at the School. Get on her wrong side, and your DS will still have a happy time at the School. Smile

onceamai · 04/02/2011 07:35

Why on earth does anyone think Eton or Harrow are a mystery. Nowadays you get a copy of a prospectus and apply according to the criteria just like anywhere else. Harrow wouldn't have been on our list because it's not academic enough. Eton I rather liked and would happily have sent the DS at 13 or for 6th form but he doesn't want to go/board. Interestingly, he doesn't much care for the boys when his present school plays matches with them. If any of you are interesteed the pecking order, in his opinion and this is regional, for the nicest boys is:

St Johns, Leatherhead
The other academic SW indy
Dulwich
St Benedicts
Kings Canterbury
A few others
....Eton (which particularly irritates by the emblazoned lcd on the coach)!

GrimmaTheNome · 04/02/2011 08:35

Why on earth does anyone think Eton or Harrow are a mystery. Nowadays you get a copy of a prospectus and apply according to the criteria just like anywhere else

well, maybe because I don't have sons so that's not a piece of literature and one may suspect the entrance procedure doesn't exactly work on a level playing field - there probably wasn't too much doubt the Princes would be offered places , for instance.Grin

I'm happy to know that 'putting Fred down for Eton' is so last century but I bet being the son of an OB doesn't do your chances much harm.

The streaming sounds pretty normal but the personal tutoring sounds great - its probably particularly valuable for boarders, its the sort of concept which ought to be applied to deprived kids with poor parenting (going completely off topic)

GrimmaTheNome · 04/02/2011 08:36

...not a piece of literature I've thought to aquire ...

onceamai · 04/02/2011 08:52

Grimma - I suspect most Indies would have fallen over themselves for the Princes. The only exclusion is self exclusion because it selects principally on ability. Yes you have to be able to pay but you won't get a place for a child who doesn't cut the mustard academically.

jonicomelately · 04/02/2011 09:54

Acanthus. I think you've very much misinterpreted my comments.

I'm a very proud northerner, certainly not 'thick' and don't see a problem with people wanting a better education for their children. The comment about lacking in intellectual confidence was a general comment, not in any way specific to the north Hmm

GrimmaTheNome · 04/02/2011 10:05

mm, don't doubt it but if A level results are a guide, pretty mild mustard which wouldn't get you into a grammar school will do if you have the right pedigree.

lostinthestix · 04/02/2011 10:19

Just about to take the fourth option, boarding school followed by state sixth form college!

JoanofArgos · 04/02/2011 10:28

Laughing a bit at the image of anyone watching all the private school parents until they find an Asian man in a van and shouting AHA! AN IMMIGRANT BUILDER!

Well, laughing and rolling eyes too.

To be equally anecdotal, I have had reason to use the carparks of three independent schools in the North of England on a regular-ish basis (letting tyres down, grafitti-ing, drinking White Lightening etc).... four by fours, Mercs and BMWs all the way, I fear.

propatria · 04/02/2011 10:36

Grimma,in your first post you admitted Eton,Harrow etc were a mystery to you,but now you seem to see old boy mafias,preferential treatment,the right pedigree etc etc,everywhere you look,do you want some ketchup with those chips...

jonicomelately · 04/02/2011 10:39

Why are you laughing and rollig eyes Confused

I can assure you I didn't stand around watching Hmm

I made a point that about the backgrounds of some parents that was subsequently questioned in some quarters. I chuckled in an ironic way when I saw immediate proof of my point. Nothing more than that.

jonicomelately · 04/02/2011 10:39

That was to Joanof Argos btw Smile

GrimmaTheNome · 04/02/2011 10:44

Quite possibly.

Maybe there isn't quite such an overrepresentation in the corridors of power by Eton OBs and their ilk as the paper round my chips might suggest? Grin

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