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Original poster

top grammar vs top private

196 replies

darleneconnor · 02/02/2011 17:32

For argument sake say you had to choose between a top (ie top 20) state grammar and a top private school which would you go for?

Assume no financial constraints and no objections to the principle of private education.

OP posts:
Feegle · 03/02/2011 10:34

Can I have a link to that inspection report please. I wonder how much they paid for it Grin

Litchick · 03/02/2011 10:36

I think also that it is completely naive to believe that being bright and consequent academic achievement will be sufficient in many areas.

The universities are looking for more, and the employers certainly are.

Bonsoir · 03/02/2011 10:36

Absolutley, Litchick.

I want our children to have lots of work-relevant skills! I have no problems at all being quite clear about this to them and to the rest of the world - why be ashamed of working hard to give your DCs a good start in life?

codinbatter · 03/02/2011 10:36

Floreat they take one-in-ten of those that apply. Most pupils don't bother applying becuae they know thy won't get in.

Bonsoir · 03/02/2011 10:38

Being clever is just a starting point; employers want proof of demonstrable skills.

Feegle · 03/02/2011 10:39

ooh ooh she got the "working hard" in there, well done Bonsoir.

Bonsoir · 03/02/2011 10:40

Feegle - just wanting those things for your children isn't going to make them happen Wink. Worse still, moaning on MN that schools aren't providing those things...

Feegle · 03/02/2011 10:41

Sorry, was I moaning about that ?

jonicomelately · 03/02/2011 10:42

Grimmathenorth.

I don't know what Stonyhurst is like. Hence the question mark.

I always thought it was OK.

1234ThumbWar · 03/02/2011 10:45

Don't forget the whole network thing with graduates, when I worked in the media it was astonishing how many graduates we had on work experience who were someones son/goddaughter etc. The good ones got taken on during hols and when we needed extra help, all great for their CV's. I can think of quite a few who then went on to graduate training schemes once they left university, they wouldn't have had a chance without the work they did with us. All because someone knew someone.

weblette · 03/02/2011 10:47

We have that choice for dd. She's qualified for the local girls top-20 grammar and also has a place at a very academic girls private school.

Her choice, which we agree with, is for the girls grammar. She keeps her current friends and still has amazing opportunities. Have to say the facilities at the grammar are more akin to private than state.

FloreatEtonia · 03/02/2011 10:48

That does not mean they are in the top 1% of the ability range. The top 1% often choose to apply to top independent schools on major scholarsips. Take an area like London where many parents would not dream of sending their child to any state school. There may be some in the top 1% but I suspect it is more like the top 10%. If they were in the top 1% then they would be top of the league tables.

Winchester:

"The ability profile of pupils is far above that of the national average and if pupils are performing in line with their ability their performance in public examinations will be above the national average for maintained selective schools."

The old report stated that 3/5 were at least in the top 5%, not 1% and yet they are more selective than grammar schools!

Westminster:

"Standardised tests show that pupils? average ability is far above the national average and above that for maintained selective schools. If pupils are performing in line with their abilities, their results in GCSE and at A level will be above the average for all maintained selective secondary schools."

Do you know a grammar that sends 50% to Oxbridge and Ivy league? No, because it isn't as selective!

Feegle · 03/02/2011 10:49

Sorry who are those quotes from ? The school itself ?

FloreatEtonia · 03/02/2011 10:52

The inspection reports! Are you seriously convinced that grammar schools are all filled with the top 1%? Hmm

Litchick · 03/02/2011 10:53

MN is full of moaners about education or the perceived system.

Saying it isn't fair is true, but ultimately pointless.

Feegle · 03/02/2011 10:54

I didn't say they were. However, I'm not covinced that Westminster is either.

FloreatEtonia · 03/02/2011 10:58

I don't think Westminster is either but it does take a brighter cohort, on average, than grammar schools.

Feegle · 03/02/2011 11:00

[sigh] Yes and poor people are genetically stupid. It would be better if they were just not allowed to have children. There is clearly no point in us discussing it is there. We will never agree. Bysee.

jonicomelately · 03/02/2011 11:01

Good point about contacts.

I think for a lot of people choose private school to make up for their lack of contacts and even lack of confidence in their own intellect.

For example, how many times do we see media types banging on about how terrible private education is when they have a massive network of contacts and do things like take their children to the Hay Festival. Private education isn't necessary when you have these sorts of tools at your disposal.

That's why private schools are often full of second generation immigrant children and children who hop out of their dad's builder's van.

I was quite peeved this morning when Adrian Chiles very sniffily kept talking about the book about bringing up girls having been written by private school teachers. He also used the phrase 'posh kids.' What he failed to mention was the fact that the mother of his children Jane Garvey went to a highly academic private school for girls Hmm So it's OK for her to do that but when anybody else does, AC gets all sniffy about it.

GrimmaTheNome · 03/02/2011 11:09

That's why private schools are often full of second generation immigrant children

partly, but a major contributor to that is that all too often the perceived best state school is a christian faith school.

codinbatter · 03/02/2011 11:12

Silly me. mea culpa, floreat

I forgot that if you are not in the SouthEast then you don't exist matter

MarinaResurgens · 03/02/2011 11:15

Floreat, with the benefit of my state school classics education, could I just point out that if you meant to have the motto of Eton as your chat name it ought to read Floreat Etona

FloreatEtonia · 03/02/2011 11:20

I know it is Etona but the username was a play on words which relates to my family!

seeker · 03/02/2011 11:20

"children who hop out of their dad's builder's van."

Absolutely. Independent schools are absolutely brimming with children who "hop out of their dad's builder's van"!

montmartre · 03/02/2011 11:23

Really? I think you'll find that many these days are actually 3rd/4th gen immigrant families, and it was their parents who hopped out of the van, went on to become Doctors, pharmacists, accountants and solicitors who now send their children who each day get out of a merc, BMW or audi.

(or was that sarcasm seeker, sorry)