Teen Eating Disorders Thread 4

[SoTiredNeedHoliday]

Starting a new thread, no 3 is full

faroch that sounds really scary, how long was she in hospital for? How much food calorie wise do you think you're getting into her now?

At the end of August we'll have the unenviable honour of having done FBT for a year 😕 dd has gained 7kg since we started last August but mentally is still as stuck as ever.

She seems to be going through a good spell mood wise those, was talking much more positively about the future and college. I don't want to piss on her parade but feel like shouting all of these plans will be a lot friggin easier to accomplish without an ED!!

@NelleBee sorry I absolutely didn't mean to suggest that 4kg is to be sniffed at, though it is incredibly frustrating as 3kg of it was in 6 weeks and then the further 1kg has taken 4 months. If it is still a further 1kg, we didn't weigh her this week and it was after a bad weekend.

Vegetarianism is a socially acceptable way to restrict food. Also the sort of child who cares about what they eat and thinks about its contents, might also be the ones more likely to develop issues around food. So I don't necessarily think they become vegetarians as part of their anorexia, it might just indicate an anorexic prone mind. The nutritionist we saw calls almond milk 'anorexia milk'.

@Fraochsmum, that sounds very stressful. I too find it really hard to get three meals and three snacks into DD. Totally draining. In her case, the only way we can is to keep emphasising, on repeat, that she has no choice, that it's her medicine, that it's what we've been told she has to do. Doesn't always work mind.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies I really hope you have some sort of breakthrough before your anniversary. Those who have recovered do say it's a bit random as to why a desire to get better finally clicks.

@Fraochsmum Hello and I'm equally sorry that you are here but glad that you are reaching out as I have found this page such a support and I hope you do too. It sounds like you have had a dreadful time of it. Have you done the Eva Musby Workshops? I found it really useful & I believe Beat does something similar as well. In the beginning, I found the only way I could get DD (13 and 33kg at lowest) to eat was to eat everything with her and to have distractions going at the same time, our main distraction of choice was watching boxsets together and I paused the show if the eating stopped. It was painstaking and there were a lot of tears but I eventually got her eating (after a hospital stint too). I know it's not necessarily advised that we eat the food plan with the patient but there was no way my DD was eating anything that I didn't eat.....So I took one for the team and ate like a teenager (and am still and will until she doesn't need me to any more).
I hope that helps a little.

Hi everyone, I'm still here we've had a busy week of ups and downs. DD's latest is asking me every 10 seconds if she looks fat, if she's fatter than X, if she looks like any random person that is on TV or in the street.... It is frustrating, and of course, the answer is no. I don't say it but DD looks like a very hungry flagpole shes so slight . The ED voice is clearly hoping I will say, 'yes you look like that person over there that is a size 22'......
I hate this illness!

Me to valley!! I feel like it's sort of within reach some days when I can see dd thinking 'why the hell am I doing this to myself again?!' And then it feels a million years away on other days.

Weight check today another small increase so we're now 57.4kgs.

CAMHs day tomorrow so will see what that brings....

Hi all still here but not very active.
@Fraochsmum sorry to have to welcome you here but you are in a good and supportive place. You have had excellent advice already (as always) but I would echo the distraction techniques. TV worked so well for us in the beginning. And as she is seeing a psychiatrist it may be worth exploring medication. Olanzapine was a game changer for us.
DD has put the 1.5kg she lost in our first 2 weeks of maintenance back on phew. So she is back to 103% wfh. There was a lot of chat earlier about maintaining at 95% which seems to be CAMHS default setting…. I have to say at 95% we were no where near rid of the ED voice and behaviours. One thing I took from that FB group before I left is that it’s worth pushing over until their mental state improves and that has worked for us. We have got used to a slightly larger version of our daughter and she is thriving, we are going bra shopping on Saturday which I never thought would happen. Still no period but we live in hope….
I am doing the Developing dolphins Beat course and aside from feeling a fraud because most of the participants are right at the beginning of their journey I am finding it helpful. I look back at the beginning of our journey and have no concept how they are attending a 2.5 hour course on a Mon eve (often in a couple) I was with DD 24/7 to stop her exercising and throwing food away and head banging etc at that point…. I would recommend the course although it is very hard to get onto but you can register your interest to get emailed when new ones become available.
Their support groups Solace are also excellent and I have had a lot of support that way too.

I think I can see a difference in dd mentally having gone from 57kg to 57.4kg. I think that puts her at just about at 9 stone in old money? That means she's gained a stone since last summer and is half stone heavier than she was pre ED!

She definitely seems more relaxed, mood has lifted and we're getting on much better. The only other thing (other than the small weight gain) that's changed is I started her on a high dose probiotic. I think there's some evidence around gut health and mood being interlinked so it might have helped I suppose.

No signs on her relaxing any of her (ridiculous and pointless) rules around food yet but I live in hope.

Is your dd eating any more freely lots? How exciting re bra shopping 😁 My dd had to be over 8 and a half stone to have periods, as soon as she dipped under they stopped. She was around that weight when she started age 14.

@Valleyofthedollymix You didn’t need to apologise - I wasn’t upset I was trying to make you feel better not worse!

DS saw CAMHS Dr face-to-face for first time since pandemic started. She weighed and measured him and showed him where he was on the charts and explained he is too thin. She’s has referred him to the dietitian and prescribed him medication (I think fluoxetine). I feel like we are starting to make progress at last.

I hear everyone on the pushing for a higher weight front. And I absolutely want to be guided by DD’s mental state rather than her weight. But I guess it just seems so counter-intuitive, and dare I say it a bit cruel, to push her higher than she has ever been when putting on the weight is the thing they fear the worst. When I have spoken to DH about it he has unhelpfully stated that we don’t want her to be overweight. I have said that I won’t make her overweight but if her mental health needs it then we should go higher. But I know DD just says when do we stop and that I’m naive if I think she’s going to reach this magical number and she will be better. I know that this is ED talking but I do kind of think she has a point to a certain extent.

DD is small and petite, as am I. DD is just under my height (5 ft 3) and seemed stable weight wise at 7 stone 5. Pre kids my weight ranged between 7.7 to 8 stone so if she’s anything like me then I would say that’s the ideal ballpark for her. I know if I try and push her closer to 8 stone that she’ll be distraught though.

@Rollergirl11 I think we have to remember that these are just guides. So 100% WFH represents the 'average' girl of your DD's height and age. But some have to be lower and others higher, or it wouldn't be the average.

Having said that, the '100% wfh' value will go up as her age goes up, because girls tend to continue putting weight on as they get older.

I don't have a problem telling DD1 that she has to get heavier (although she's now at her weight to aim for) but I do have a problem with the idea that we shouldn't enter into discussion with them when they say they feel fat. It doesn't seem fair to leave them with those thoughts.

Lougle yes that’s what I mean, it seems cruel to expect them to just suck it up. DD’s body image was bad before the ED. Bad enough to tip her in to disordered thoughts. Yet now we expect her to go higher and yet somehow her mental state be better? Her body image will still be as bad, if not worse, then it was pre ED. This is what I can’t get my head around.

@Rollergirl11 I totally hear you, I feel the same. DD has tracked on the 7th centile for bmi her whole life, in y6 we got a letter saying she was underweight (when she used to eat magnificently and was always tall for her age). And I worry it sounds kind of disordered of me, as if I want her to be skinny.

And I don't I really don't. I know she's too thin at the moment. But it seems weird that as a result of an eating disorder, we have to push her bmi way, way higher than it's ever been.

But at the same time, state not weight. We'll just have to wait and see. All I know is that the more we push her to eat, the more obsessive she becomes about food. I just cannot wait until we're not having to do that.

I think it's a gradual process, isn't it? I've stopped calorie counting and I'm letting her choose her snacks, etc., without worrying too much about how many calories she's had. She's still put on 700g in 5 days, and I'm trying not to worry too much, although in the back of my mind I know she's in the ideal range, according to the psychiatrist, so she doesn't need to go higher.

Having said that, I am trying to focus on establishing that normal people eat regularly and get hungry. School is a bit of a sticking point, because they don't seem to understand that DD1's default would be not to eat. We had two good days with supervision, then today, she didn't have morning snack - nobody had kept an eye on her, as we had agreed.

I would just say in terms of additional food intake/weight gain.. is that our experience is that DD's metabolism is all over the place. It is sometimes super super fast and she still has moments of extreme hunger and what we don't see is how much of the energy the body is taking on is being put aside/used up to repair. What we know from the wobbles we've had over the last couple of weeks is that DD still needs to be eating quite a bit to allow her body to build up some reserves. We've had a week where due to "socialising" Dd has expended more energy and its brought back quite a few physical symptoms of fainting, dizziness, coldness, blue tones to nails.. it has been a salutary reminder of what we're not seeing literally beneath her skin...

@Girliefriendlikespuppies yes DD is a little better with her eating. She is helping herself to extra stuff when she fancies it. Her mood was the first thing to get better so smiling, laughing, communicating and joining in. Then after a bit more weight less worry about losing fitness etc. Then an ability to cope better with disappointment/ unexpected changes etc. And finally she is now eating independently at school and making good choices. And is eating a bit more intuitively. And feels hunger again.
All these stages needed a little extra weight.
My understanding is that most need to go over their pre ed weight for various reasons like they have grown or gone through puberty but mainly because the brain healing happens last and they need the stores of energy and continued good levels of nutrition for that to happen.
My DH was always on about her going too far over…he has stopped now he can see how much better she is mentally.

@Rollergirl11 I also have worries over the WFH goals but I have decided just to trust the dr's and work towards the target they have set (90% for my DD) and as your family, ours is on the small side so 90 seems ok, if maybe a tad high. She's always tracked lower than 90% looking back on the data but she's a teen and her body needs to keep growing etc. Plus I think having a little extra weight when she moves to a maintenance plan will only be a good thing.
There is no way our DD's would be classed as fat at the targets we're looking at here on this site (90-110). Your DH probably just needed to think about his wording a little perhaps? Maybe he meant you don't want to make her be heavier than she should naturally be?

When you see teens walking around with their mums I do notice that a lot of teens are bigger than the mums and I think that is natural, they are growing, etc. We've all stopped growing and had children so we're at a different stage.
@Lougle Your description of WHF is great, so easy to understand. I always find the concept tricky. So 100% WFH represents the 'average' girl of your DD's height and age

I'm not sure what to do with DD1. She's now in the middle-upper end of her target range. Today she's said she's starving. She wanted 2 chocolate doughnuts. I said no, just 1. Then she yelled at me, so I said that if she was really hungry she could have a banana. She wanted a banana and a packet of crisps. I said she had to wait 15 minutes. So she's ended up with a doughnut, a banana and a packet of crisps as her snack. Am I meant to let her eat freely, or keep her calories 'normal' so she doesn't go over the target range? 🤷‍♂️

Obviously I’m no expert Lougle but I’d be inclined to let her have what she wants if she is saying she’s really hungry. Could she be experiencing extreme hunger? Does it matter if she goes over the target if she herself is asking for the food? I thought the aim is to eventually get them eating freely without restricting.

That's what I was thinking. Then I got confused!

Also if you deny her could it send the message that you think she’s being greedy which is not really ideal?

Thats the other thing lougle with this illness (these illnesses) is the amount of second guessing we end up doing as parents/carers. Its a day by day reel of "should I do this" "No, I'll do that" "Shit, that was the wrong thing to do"....

I recall your DD's hunger being stimulated by the medication she was on originally but I too wonder whether its extreme hunger she's feeling? DD experienced it as her body (as opposed to her mind) constantly asking/checking in if they were going to have more food. The day she ate a sandwich her body was apparently demanding another sandwich and pleading with her to allow it to have sandwiches again tomorrow

(As an aside I'm never entirely sure if I'm consistent with the pronouns I'm using when talking about DD, DD's anorexia, DD's mind, DD's body - its a cast of thousands at times isn't it?!)

That's the sort of snack I have on a fairly regular basis Lougle 🙈🤣** I think if she's hungry and wants to eat then go with it!! I'd be jumping for joy if dd had that for a snack. I'm not really sure that any teen should maintain their weight for very long as they're still growing/developing etc? It should be increasing plus she's still on olanzipine?

I think my weight evened out when I turned 18-19yo and then stayed roughly the same until late 30s when I seemed to gain half stone over night and then again recently for obvious reasons!! I've never deliberately restricted my diet or not had something I fancied but I suppose never had to as managed to stay a healthy weight (size 12.)

I hope that doesn't sound stupidly smug, my point is that actually the human body is pretty good at managing itself. I eat if I'm hungry and eat everything in moderation.

Unfortunately I seemed to have failed to pass that message onto dd!!

I'm wondering about letting her do a bit more exercise? Nothing drastic but maybe some Pilates type stretches?

Had a meeting with the psychiatrist Ystd, she seems to think dd is now fine 😕 'lots of people only eat 3 times a day' she also down played the OCD 'lots of people have routines and rituals....' weight checks have gone to monthly as have meetings with Camhs. Dd is 99% wfh.

I don't know what to think tbh, dd is nowhere near 'fixed' imo, still relies on me to organise her food, food is still only eaten at set times, loads of ocd type behaviours etc etc

I felt like the psychiatrist was saying this might be as good as we'll get her ☹️

Can I join please ? Dd diagnosed with anorexia recently!

Welcome @huuuuunnnndderrricks, dive on in. How are you doing?

Yes, @Girliefriendlikespuppies I agree - I used to eat anything and everything when I was younger and couldn't put an ounce on. Even went to GPs and they checked me over because I was underweight. I was 53kg (172cm) between DD1 & DD2. But now I'm in my 40s I've put over 10kg on.

I think I'll just let her choose and see how it goes. I do need to guide her away from a 100% chocolate diet though!

@Lougle terrible if I'm honest , we have just had initial meetings with feds and given the plan ! 🤯🤯

Oh that's a hard stage - it's all so overwhelming.

It might help if I give you a quick summary of our journey so far:
August 2020 - seen at hospital and sent home with no action
February 2021 - phoned GP to say DD1's heart rate was 144 on standing and she was dizzy. Sent to A&E. Admitted and kept in for 9 days. Weight for height was 68% (BMI 13). Started on fluoxetine.
February to mid-March hopeless - putting on and losing the same 200g. Bed rest and wheelchair.
Mid-March - asked for a NG tube. Consultant agreed but suggested we talk it over with the psychiatrist first. She suggested olanzapine.
Mid-March until now: steadily gaining weight. Now weight restored.
Finally back at school.