Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Spousal Maintenance?

312 replies

Unknown83 · 25/01/2022 15:44

I've begun discussing a financial settlement with my STBXW and we've come to a sticking point on spousal maintenance. Fairly normal disagreement I guess, she thinks she should get 62% of the assets (around £170k) and spousal maintenance for life whereas I think after the 62/38 split we should have an immediate clean break. I'd be grateful for other people's experiences and what a likely settlement would look like:

Me: Husband, age 40, earn £90k approx
Her: Wife, age 39, SAHM retraining, earning capacity of around £20k and potential to earn more over time (with the right incentive!)
Marriage: 11 years
Assets: Equity £100k, Pensions £150k. Other than mortgage, only outstanding debts on cars with net asset value of around +£24k.
Children: 3 (all boys aged 6, 8 and 12). Split will be 8 nights her and 6 me.

We're generally agreed on an asset split. She'll get £80k equity, her car and loan with net £15k value and £75k pension and I'll get £20k equity, my car worth £9k net and £75k pension.

The sticking point is on spousal maintenance. I'm of the opinion that once she's got her income (around £1,400 net), universal credit (around £500 net) and child maintenance from me (around £750 a month) then the total of £2,650 should be more than enough to live on without "undue hardship." I'd also have to pay her well over £500 a month for spousal maintenance to be worthwhile because universal credit drops £ for £.

I should also explain that to get my good salary I have to spend around £6k a year commuting to London. So after taxes, commuting, continuing to pay for things like private medical insurance for the children and child maintenance my monthly income is only going to be £800 more than hers a month and as she's getting something like £70k more in assets from me and my mortgage interest is going to be a lot higher than hers for years I think that is fair enough. I've worked out it will be at least 9 years before I catch her up and that's assuming she doesn't progress in her career (she did not have a career to compensate prior to children either, she was doing a minimum wage job before the children were born).

Her opinion though is that she shouldn't have to work until DCs are in secondary school, that she should have a higher income than me to be "fair" and that when child maintenance stops I should carry on paying her to make it "fair" because she's had to "stay at home to look after the children and sacrifice her career." My counter argument is that I want the children 6 nights in every 14 including week nights so she can go and get a job like everyone else.

One other thing to add is that I won't see much of the last £15k of my salary already. £6.5k will be tax, £6k will be commuting costs and about £2.25k will be child maintenance so I'll get about £250 of it! Not a lot for the 4 hours of commuting on office days (and I'm not sure where I'll find the time to run a household on my own even though I can WFH for my days with the kids). I've warned my wife that if she pursues the spousal maintenance issue then the logical thing for me to do will be to quit my London job and take something locally where my earning capacity would be closer to £60k per annum and her child maintenance would drop substantially. Presumably a court would consider that a reasonable adjustment so that I can spend more time with the children rather than slaving away to fund a lazy ex who refuses to get a job?

OP posts:
millymolls · 30/01/2022 09:03

Redhelenb- not once as he shown any less than desire to support his children
The lazy money grabbing ex not so much - neither she wants to support them by you know actually getting off her backside and working to support them all the while believing her ex must provide for her forever! Yet somehow it’s the man’s fault, yeah right
I actually hope she gets less than the % banded about on here

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 30/01/2022 09:09

@Unknown83 I saw someone else on the forum who said when divorce happens both roles should change. The homemaker should get a job and the rainmaker should be able to scale back their work commitments and do a fair share of the childcare to facilitate this. That's real equality, that's what I'm aiming for.
It's not always possible, but where it is I think parents should be aiming for this type of equality. SEN, illness, disability and abuse might mean it's unworkable, those aside I think the majority of children would benefit from having this model before them, where both parents contribute to income and to DC's care.

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow · 30/01/2022 09:33

@RedHelenB

Sorry OP but I hope your stbxw gets the house, spousal maintenance, the lot. Not once have you shown any compassion for your poor children in all this, all you want is to get one up on your ex. Pay for a fancy solicitor whose only goal is to fleece as much money as they can from you. Must be a male thing, rather bankrupt themselves than keep a stable home for their children or pay anything above what they are forced to.
This
summertimerolls · 30/01/2022 09:50

I have a better idea than him. If she got a Mesher until youngest was 18 or 21 I'd deliberately go bankrupt and force a sale, then repair my credit rating. It takes about 6 years to recover from bankruptcy on your credit rating to get a mortgage compared to 10-13 years waiting to get off the old mortgage and buy so a no brainer! It would have the added bonus that I wouldn't be allowed to do my current job anymore

I say again - your poor children.

You started this thread off from a perfectly reasonable standpoint - spousal maintenance didn't seem appropriate in your situation.

But this is quite mad. "No brainer" is right, but not in the way you mean it. I'm sure your kids would be super proud of you going bankrupt deliberately just to stop their mum having any of your money.

Your STBXW may well have been all of the things you've said in your many awful posts about her, but I can't imagine from the snapshot you've given us into your own character that you were much fun to be married to either.

Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 09:52

@RedHelenB I couldn't agree with you more. The fact he's putting his DC in the middle of his vendetta is completely lost on him. All he cares about is ruining his STBXW. Doesn't care he will be taking his DC down with her. And all vailed by the weakest equality argument. Where was that equality during the baby years and the night feeds and his long long commutes. Now he thinks it's easy to do the wife work. Utterly clueless in his arrogance and vanity.

Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 09:54

@summertimerolls accurate Glitterball

millymolls · 30/01/2022 10:05

Lots of bitter women on here
If a woman came in here earning more with a useless sahd who didn’t work, wanted all assets, spousal for life etc etc who’d never had a career to start with let alone ‘sacrificing it’ she’s be told to protect her assets, gave the children more overnights, make sure she could claim to be primary career, he’d have to work etc etc

Op is being fair
She will get bigger % of assets
He is caring for his dc
Is it right he has to with his arse of in stressful long hours job to give her spousal - no
She should contribute financially too and the fact she expects not too really says more about her than op

Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:09

@RedHelenB

Sorry OP but I hope your stbxw gets the house, spousal maintenance, the lot. Not once have you shown any compassion for your poor children in all this, all you want is to get one up on your ex. Pay for a fancy solicitor whose only goal is to fleece as much money as they can from you. Must be a male thing, rather bankrupt themselves than keep a stable home for their children or pay anything above what they are forced to.
You've only read the last couple of posts and taken things out of context. Presumably you're one of those people who believe in a divorce the SAHP should get absolutely everything they need and the higher earner should just be used as an ATM until the children are grown up. Heaven forfend that they should actually get a job like normal people!

The fact is I have the same needs as my STBXW and I am not going to be put in a position where I'm stuck in some rented bedsit unable to spend quality time with my children because of her bad behaviour.

Hopefully I won't have to do any of these things but I have to be prepared to do it in order to be able to negotiate. I'm not going to become one of those suckers who ends up paying an income and a mortgage for an ex and their new partner whilst living in penury myself.

OP posts:
Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:11

@millymolls not sure where you get any truth on what the wife would do from this post but ok.

I don't think there are many women (if any at all) that would bankrupt themselves (making their DC homeless).

Also probs if you are going to pose as a woman don't call yourself after someone off love island Wink

Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:13

@Unknown83 A lot of 'normal people' don't work because they are carers or for other reasons. Your personality is really shining through now.

TeachesOfPeaches · 30/01/2022 10:22

Sounds like your wife will be shacked up with someone new quite quickly so go for a clean break

Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:22

@summertimerolls

I have a better idea than him. If she got a Mesher until youngest was 18 or 21 I'd deliberately go bankrupt and force a sale, then repair my credit rating. It takes about 6 years to recover from bankruptcy on your credit rating to get a mortgage compared to 10-13 years waiting to get off the old mortgage and buy so a no brainer! It would have the added bonus that I wouldn't be allowed to do my current job anymore

I say again - your poor children.

You started this thread off from a perfectly reasonable standpoint - spousal maintenance didn't seem appropriate in your situation.

But this is quite mad. "No brainer" is right, but not in the way you mean it. I'm sure your kids would be super proud of you going bankrupt deliberately just to stop their mum having any of your money.

Your STBXW may well have been all of the things you've said in your many awful posts about her, but I can't imagine from the snapshot you've given us into your own character that you were much fun to be married to either.

I think you need to look at the whole context. The chances are if my STBXW was awarded a Mesher Order until my youngest was 18 - or worse 21 - I would never be a homeowner again even on my good income. I find it outrageously unfair to think she could retire as a property owner whilst I could not. I also think it would be grossly unfair that she could provide a stable home for the DCs if I could not. That's not equality.

She also - like so many people on this forum and others - wouldn't understand how a Mesher Order worked. She wouldn't understand why it was fair for her to pay the whole mortgage (because I had to rent because my capital and mortgage capacity was tied up for her benefit) and she also wouldn't understand why it was a percentage of equity and not a fixed amount at the point of divorce. I've lost count of the time I've seen idiots coming on forums like this and complaining that they have to pay 40% of the £300k house to their ex rather than the £60k or so it was worth 15 years ago and then getting sympathy from fellow idiots. In fact there's a thread under AIBU right now where a resident parent is being egged on by others on the forum to get a low valuation now the Mesher is coming to an end in order to swindle the non-resident out of thousands.

Bankruptcy would be a very silly thing to do but not a bad thing to threaten as a negotiating tactic in the circumstances. She is quite able to house the children without needing a Mesher Order, she just needs to get a job like normal people. I don't feel like it would be my fault if she was unable to house the children, it would be entirely hers. If she wants to be irresponsible then they would be quite welcome to live with me full time and she could have contact.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:24

[quote Sprucewillis]@RedHelenB I couldn't agree with you more. The fact he's putting his DC in the middle of his vendetta is completely lost on him. All he cares about is ruining his STBXW. Doesn't care he will be taking his DC down with her. And all vailed by the weakest equality argument. Where was that equality during the baby years and the night feeds and his long long commutes. Now he thinks it's easy to do the wife work. Utterly clueless in his arrogance and vanity.[/quote]
Knowledge by experience actually. She never breast fed, so guess who did all the night feeds?

You need to stop making lazy, sexist assumptions.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:25

[quote Sprucewillis]@millymolls not sure where you get any truth on what the wife would do from this post but ok.

I don't think there are many women (if any at all) that would bankrupt themselves (making their DC homeless).

Also probs if you are going to pose as a woman don't call yourself after someone off love island Wink[/quote]
Check a thread a few posts down from this one.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:25

@TeachesOfPeaches

Sounds like your wife will be shacked up with someone new quite quickly so go for a clean break
Nah, she shags strangers and then moves on to the next. They're all married deadbeats who wouldn't leave their own wives.
OP posts:
millymolls · 30/01/2022 10:26

Sprucewillis
Well I am a woman I’m not actually pretending to be one but who cares. Just because I dont buy the poor downtrodden woman who cant work act and has made soooo many career sacrifices ….. rubbish

Can’t say I’ve ever watched love island so they says more about you than me

Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:31

[quote Sprucewillis]@Unknown83 A lot of 'normal people' don't work because they are carers or for other reasons. Your personality is really shining through now.[/quote]
I know that. But my STBXW is not a carer. She has three children a little over half the time, they are all in school and she is entitled to a childcare portion of UC. So, like most people in that situation, she ought to get a job.

However, she does not want to do so. My view is she can do what she wants, but it's not my responsibility to subsidise that either in the form of SM or through letting her use my mortgage capacity because she refuses to build her own. If she wants to stay at home all day, then it's her responsibility to figure out how to deal with the resultant shortfall of cash and inability to borrow, not mine. She's meant to be an independent, responsible adult for goodness sake. Isn't she?

OP posts:
Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:32

@millymolls

Sprucewillis Well I am a woman I’m not actually pretending to be one but who cares. Just because I dont buy the poor downtrodden woman who cant work act and has made soooo many career sacrifices ….. rubbish

Can’t say I’ve ever watched love island so they says more about you than me

Sure Wink
Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:35

@millymolls

Sprucewillis Well I am a woman I’m not actually pretending to be one but who cares. Just because I dont buy the poor downtrodden woman who cant work act and has made soooo many career sacrifices ….. rubbish

Can’t say I’ve ever watched love island so they says more about you than me

It's funny how so many SAHPs who have "made sacrifices" have had a lot of time to watch trashy TV isn't it? I spend half my evenings working overtime that isn't paid in order to keep my job. But apparently these other posters think my STBXW should have the same lifestyle as me for spending all her time playing games on her phone and watching rubbish on the telly.
OP posts:
Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:37

*Knowledge by experience actually. She never breast fed, so guess who did all the night feeds?

You need to stop making lazy, sexist assumptions.*

You see I highly doubt this because you would never have had more than 1 DC and maintain the 'what ever made up time you claim for your work life/commute' and your 'professional' job.

You can not seriously expect anyone to believe this BS.

millymolls · 30/01/2022 10:40

Sprucewillis
Guess you are like the ex on here then
😀

Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:41

It's funny how so many SAHPs who have "made sacrifices" have had a lot of time to watch trashy TV isn't it?

This just gets wilder by the post. Heaven forbid a SAHP has leisure time. Shall I get back in my box in the kitchen?

Sprucewillis · 30/01/2022 10:44

@millymolls

Guess you are the OP on here then? :p

Unknown83 · 30/01/2022 10:47

@Sprucewillis

*Knowledge by experience actually. She never breast fed, so guess who did all the night feeds?

You need to stop making lazy, sexist assumptions.*

You see I highly doubt this because you would never have had more than 1 DC and maintain the 'what ever made up time you claim for your work life/commute' and your 'professional' job.

You can not seriously expect anyone to believe this BS.

Believe what you want. I don't know you and you're clearly someone who holds old fashioned, sexist ideas about how families work. Reality is I used to do that commute and I used to be up at 2 or 3am in the morning too doing night feeds. You might not like that information because it challenges your sexist narrative, but that's not my problem.
OP posts:
summertimerolls · 30/01/2022 10:50

I find it outrageously unfair to think she could retire as a property owner whilst I could not.

Why would she be more likely to retire as a property owner than you?

Once the trigger even for the Mesher order comes, the house will be sold and the proceeds divided. As you're such a high earner, it seems you're more likely to then be able to get a mortgage with your half deposit than your ex, particularly if she's "scraping along" not earning much.

I doubt a Mesher order is appropriate for you though. They're best in situations where the couple are amicable (you're not) and are happy to continue being financially tied to each other (you're not) and have the best interests of the children as priority (you don't seem to).

Just negotiate a clean break and move on. Take a capital hit now and then you have the next 40 years old your life to live as you please.

Swipe left for the next trending thread