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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Spousal Maintenance?

312 replies

Unknown83 · 25/01/2022 15:44

I've begun discussing a financial settlement with my STBXW and we've come to a sticking point on spousal maintenance. Fairly normal disagreement I guess, she thinks she should get 62% of the assets (around £170k) and spousal maintenance for life whereas I think after the 62/38 split we should have an immediate clean break. I'd be grateful for other people's experiences and what a likely settlement would look like:

Me: Husband, age 40, earn £90k approx
Her: Wife, age 39, SAHM retraining, earning capacity of around £20k and potential to earn more over time (with the right incentive!)
Marriage: 11 years
Assets: Equity £100k, Pensions £150k. Other than mortgage, only outstanding debts on cars with net asset value of around +£24k.
Children: 3 (all boys aged 6, 8 and 12). Split will be 8 nights her and 6 me.

We're generally agreed on an asset split. She'll get £80k equity, her car and loan with net £15k value and £75k pension and I'll get £20k equity, my car worth £9k net and £75k pension.

The sticking point is on spousal maintenance. I'm of the opinion that once she's got her income (around £1,400 net), universal credit (around £500 net) and child maintenance from me (around £750 a month) then the total of £2,650 should be more than enough to live on without "undue hardship." I'd also have to pay her well over £500 a month for spousal maintenance to be worthwhile because universal credit drops £ for £.

I should also explain that to get my good salary I have to spend around £6k a year commuting to London. So after taxes, commuting, continuing to pay for things like private medical insurance for the children and child maintenance my monthly income is only going to be £800 more than hers a month and as she's getting something like £70k more in assets from me and my mortgage interest is going to be a lot higher than hers for years I think that is fair enough. I've worked out it will be at least 9 years before I catch her up and that's assuming she doesn't progress in her career (she did not have a career to compensate prior to children either, she was doing a minimum wage job before the children were born).

Her opinion though is that she shouldn't have to work until DCs are in secondary school, that she should have a higher income than me to be "fair" and that when child maintenance stops I should carry on paying her to make it "fair" because she's had to "stay at home to look after the children and sacrifice her career." My counter argument is that I want the children 6 nights in every 14 including week nights so she can go and get a job like everyone else.

One other thing to add is that I won't see much of the last £15k of my salary already. £6.5k will be tax, £6k will be commuting costs and about £2.25k will be child maintenance so I'll get about £250 of it! Not a lot for the 4 hours of commuting on office days (and I'm not sure where I'll find the time to run a household on my own even though I can WFH for my days with the kids). I've warned my wife that if she pursues the spousal maintenance issue then the logical thing for me to do will be to quit my London job and take something locally where my earning capacity would be closer to £60k per annum and her child maintenance would drop substantially. Presumably a court would consider that a reasonable adjustment so that I can spend more time with the children rather than slaving away to fund a lazy ex who refuses to get a job?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/01/2022 21:05

We could have coped with me remaining at home after all the DC were at school but we felt it was important that they had the example set that everyone works and earns. Also that men do the household and child rearing as much as women.

Funnily enough my eldest has moved out of sharing with her boyfriend because he expects her to be his Mum and do all the "wifework". She knows that it's unacceptable TF.

Unknown83 · 27/01/2022 21:44

@RandomMess

We could have coped with me remaining at home after all the DC were at school but we felt it was important that they had the example set that everyone works and earns. Also that men do the household and child rearing as much as women.

Funnily enough my eldest has moved out of sharing with her boyfriend because he expects her to be his Mum and do all the "wifework". She knows that it's unacceptable TF.

I think you set an excellent example! And you're right, after divorce both parents should be allowed (and expected) to balance their lives between earning and childcare. Anything else leads to gross unfairness whether that's an ex who can never build a career or an ex forced to carry on working themselves to death after their children are grown up simply to provide for an ex.
OP posts:
couldhavenotcouldof22 · 28/01/2022 13:50

Get a clean break and pay child maintenance. Don't give her SM for God's sake! She can get off her arse and work. She's trying it on, the cheeky cah.

Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 14:04

Can I just say a big thanks to most of the people who have replied here? To those who claim MumsNet is sexist, I'm calling BS because most of the responses here have been balanced and fair.

Obviously I'm making an exception for @Bogisbunceandbean who made some incredibly sexist remarks based on lazy assumptions and the kind of family model that hasn't existed since the 1950s and we've also seen the other side of it from people desperate to prove the Forum's sexism and spoiling for a fight that isn't there to be had...

However, on the whole, great advice and many thanks.

OP posts:
Sprucewillis · 28/01/2022 14:27

SAHM's are not 'scraping along'. My view on you is solely based on the toxic language you have used throughout your post to describe your STBXW and other women in her situation, it does not make me sexist.

I am not a SAHM btw. However I do value what they provide in a relationship. I also think SAHM's deserve cars for the tasks they carry out day to day. Being a SAHM is not a holiday.

My belief is that in separation and divorce the DC's needs come first. I don't know how this makes me sexist. I am willing to bet you will be straight back to tell me how though Wink

To be clear, I have no view on how you and your STBXW split your time or your money. I don't care, it doesn't affect me.

Sweetie1980 · 28/01/2022 14:55

I have been a sahm ( now working part time and looking for more hours ) nearly divorced. My higher earning ex gets up at 9am every day and goes out most evenings. I am up at 6am and do all chores /childcare /school runs and everything else. I also do all reading /homework/pkay dates after school. I feel like he is the lazy one! Wink

Sweetie1980 · 28/01/2022 14:56

My ex that is..

Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 15:11

@Sprucewillis

SAHM's are not 'scraping along'. My view on you is solely based on the toxic language you have used throughout your post to describe your STBXW and other women in her situation, it does not make me sexist.

I am not a SAHM btw. However I do value what they provide in a relationship. I also think SAHM's deserve cars for the tasks they carry out day to day. Being a SAHM is not a holiday.

My belief is that in separation and divorce the DC's needs come first. I don't know how this makes me sexist. I am willing to bet you will be straight back to tell me how though Wink

To be clear, I have no view on how you and your STBXW split your time or your money. I don't care, it doesn't affect me.

I was talking about my STBXW who has the means and opportunity to do more than sit at home for 6 hours a day when the children are at school.

You are the one conflating that with all SAHPs, which is your problem, not mine.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 15:12

@Sweetie1980

I have been a sahm ( now working part time and looking for more hours ) nearly divorced. My higher earning ex gets up at 9am every day and goes out most evenings. I am up at 6am and do all chores /childcare /school runs and everything else. I also do all reading /homework/pkay dates after school. I feel like he is the lazy one! Wink
That's because your situation and mine are completely different!
OP posts:
CrimbleCrumble1 · 28/01/2022 15:22

Would she accept a bigger percentage of the assets and no spousal maintenance? Your assets aren’t actually that high and your income is now higher than it was three years ago you have plenty of time to increase your pension or build up equity.

arethereanyleftatall · 28/01/2022 15:33

The problem is - it's all the same on paper, one person is the sahp, one person is the wohp. What is fair? There isn't a one size fits all answer.
Extreme A - sahp did genuinely give up career, did allow wohp to further theirs, and was absolutely run ragged doing everything at home, making sure dc did extracurricular, ate well, read to etc, wohp did nothing other than work ooh.
Exteme B - sahp didn't give up career and did bare minimum, wohp worked then did everything at home too.
Go to courts/solicitor and The sahp will argue they did all A, the wohp will argue they did all B.

Sprucewillis · 28/01/2022 15:33

I was talking about my STBXW who has the means and opportunity to do more than sit at home for 6 hours a day when the children are at school.

You are the one conflating that with all SAHPs, which is your problem, not mine.

@Unknown83

Again - being a SAHM is not a holiday. Read what your wrote, read it again if you need too. It is you that is being sexist.

Sweetie1980 · 28/01/2022 15:57

I had just gained professional qualifications before I had my first dc and got made redundant and paid off ( company take over )so I had some funds to be a SAHM at the beginning. Solicitor has suggested I have a spousal claim until I build my earning capacity up as I cant earn much right now .To be honest I want to cut ties with ex as he is abusive and i want to be able to pay for myself and DC.. It's not good for a persons self-esteem to be kept. Ex will have a shock when he has to do some of the work and his day job

Neveragain85 · 28/01/2022 16:04

I think people threaten spousal to get a bigger share of the assets when it's rarely awarded in court. Good luck op

summertimerolls · 28/01/2022 20:29

In fact, I think she would also set a terrible example if she just scraped along instead of trying to have some kind of career that would make the kids proud.

This is grim.

So not only does she have to get a job (which is fair enough) but she has to get a job that you the kids approve of as a quality career?

I'm surprised no one else has picked up on this comment - it's so nauseatingly superior and shows you right up to be the kind that most likely looks down on people in low income jobs who are "scraping by".

DaffodilDandilion · 28/01/2022 20:56

Completely agree summer…

Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 21:34

@CrimbleCrumble1

Would she accept a bigger percentage of the assets and no spousal maintenance? Your assets aren’t actually that high and your income is now higher than it was three years ago you have plenty of time to increase your pension or build up equity.
If you apply CETV to the pension she's already getting over 70%. I'd rather burn through the assets dealing with her in court than giving her anymore.
OP posts:
Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 21:38

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Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 21:40

@Sweetie1980

I had just gained professional qualifications before I had my first dc and got made redundant and paid off ( company take over )so I had some funds to be a SAHM at the beginning. Solicitor has suggested I have a spousal claim until I build my earning capacity up as I cant earn much right now .To be honest I want to cut ties with ex as he is abusive and i want to be able to pay for myself and DC.. It's not good for a persons self-esteem to be kept. Ex will have a shock when he has to do some of the work and his day job
Don't bank on it. My STBXW used to say that at the beginning of the pandemic when I stopped commuting five days a week and started sharing weekday childcare.

Honestly? It's a piece of piss compared to my day job.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 21:58

@summertimerolls

In fact, I think she would also set a terrible example if she just scraped along instead of trying to have some kind of career that would make the kids proud.

This is grim.

So not only does she have to get a job (which is fair enough) but she has to get a job that you the kids approve of as a quality career?

I'm surprised no one else has picked up on this comment - it's so nauseatingly superior and shows you right up to be the kind that most likely looks down on people in low income jobs who are "scraping by".

Fair enough. Will it be okay for me to quit my job and take a £20k one I enjoy then? I want to carry on living to my current standard but my STBXW is a graduate and she could maintain me. By your logic that would be fair enough as she would have to have a very superior attitude to expect me to do more.

I don't look down on low income people. I envy them. Especially those granted by the courts to use someone else as an ATM.

OP posts:
Unknown83 · 28/01/2022 22:00

@Sprucewillis

I was talking about my STBXW who has the means and opportunity to do more than sit at home for 6 hours a day when the children are at school.

You are the one conflating that with all SAHPs, which is your problem, not mine.

@Unknown83

Again - being a SAHM is not a holiday. Read what your wrote, read it again if you need too. It is you that is being sexist.

Yes I know. I do half of all childcare. You would know that if you stopped trading in stereotypes.
OP posts:
Sweetie1980 · 28/01/2022 22:02

Yes but he has only had to worry about his day job for ten years ( and he has cut down his work already ) he currently gets up after 9 am and is out at the pub at 6 pm or doing some sport/watching tv so enjoying his evening. so it wont be a shock when he has to cook/clean/laundry and help kids with homework after work?

Unknown83 · 29/01/2022 00:18

@Sweetie1980

Yes but he has only had to worry about his day job for ten years ( and he has cut down his work already ) he currently gets up after 9 am and is out at the pub at 6 pm or doing some sport/watching tv so enjoying his evening. so it wont be a shock when he has to cook/clean/laundry and help kids with homework after work?
I've said before your case is quite different to mine. When I was commuting and out from 6:30am getting home 8pm or later I was still doing a good third of the housework and most of the weekend childcare already. The pandemic meant I ended up doing more than half. My STBXW couldn't cope with things like home schooling and was frequently out of the house much longer than she should have been (she said she was at the supermarket or exercising, but I think on the balance of probabilities she was parking up somewhere and sexting based on the filth I found on the shared photo folder of our laptop).

I get that in a lot of cases these days, both spouses work but one gets lumbered with more of the housework than the other. In fact, maybe that's more common than my situation.

However, my marriage broke down so far as I can tell because my STBXW couldn't cope when our relationship changed from our pre-children state to our post children one. Before children, my wife had it very easy. I already earned about three times what she did and we shared all the housework 50/50. She often quit jobs and spent months at a time having a cafe lifestyle spending the money I was earning. When you love someone you don't see it but looking back I've been taken for a ride. We basically had a child-parent relationship. I was the responsible adult who paid for everything and she was a dependent.

When the kids came along though things changed. Suddenly she had to step up and do her share of the work and boy has she resented it. To make matters worse, because she has no concept of a demanding job as opposed to the kind of "envelope stuffing and have a laugh" kind of work she was doing before the children, her resentment is largely based on a false notion of how easy I've had it. Apparently it's "easy" to be out commuting all day and barely seeing your children in the week (pre-pandemic). It's "easy" to have to log on at night to finish work. It's "easy" to stand on a cramped train for nearly 3 hours a day.

So, like I said, it might have been different for you but for me I've spent the last three years being nagged at how I "couldn't cope without her" because of her contribution. The brutal honest truth is I want shared custody and she wants spousal maintenance. So it doesn't look like I'm the one who can't cope on my own!

OP posts:
Sweetie1980 · 29/01/2022 07:03

Yes she certainly sounds hard work and it sounds like you have always done more than your fair share. When my ex was commuting I never expected him to do any childcare /house chores as he was out the house all day until 7 and I know that's tiring as I have done it, I would do all night wake ups when kids were babies/toddlers so he didn't have his sleep disturbed and same at the weekend. Ex also wanted to keep his life before kids, long sleeps at the weekend etc. I was often out early with kids on my own so have felt like a single mum for a long time. He has been at home for two years and I still do everything. During lockdown I did all the home schooling and would take the kids out for exercise, he was quite at work was often updating his skills or sleeping! There are not of reasons why I don't want shared care with him ( more to do with safeguarding ). Is your ex in agreement re childcare ?

CaroleFuckingBaskin · 29/01/2022 07:20

It is very rare to pay spousal these days. The general consensus is that it is based on NEED, not WANT.

She will be expected to work. She has shown already that she is training. She may require a top up spousal until she is trained, but even that will be based on NEED not want.

She sounds like she will be greedy on her form E and believe me, that will be the start of her downfall.

Judges are very careful and pick up on greed. Someone I know ended up with an exact 50/50 split due to arrogance and demands in court. The husband had offered her more, but such was her attitude that she expected to get almost all of the household assets thst she dragged him through the courts, and ended up with far less, plus had her own legal bills to pay.

This was a long marriage of 20 years with 3 children at school. Greed does not pay!

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