Divorcing a suspected narcissist

RandomMess · 05/12/2021 17:54

Speak to NDV helpline again and ask if these threats are now enough to get an occupation order/restraining order.

SweetBabyCheeses99 · 05/12/2021 18:02

Do you think he’s defending the divorce because he actually thinks your marriage is saveable, just to be obtuse, or because his poor character might be publicly outed?

Perhaps it’s a bit of all of these, but maybe you need to play him at his own game. If he genuinely believes that you are emotionally abusive/neglectful/controlling then why not suggest that he petitions you for divorce instead? It doesn’t really matter matter who is the “wronged” party in the end, just agree and it will be done. If that’s not going to work then I think you might be better off just waiting the two years and doing it then.

Notmyyearthisyear · 05/12/2021 18:13

I’m sorry to say that you are up for a very bumpy ride. Talking from experience.
They will not let go unless they have to. The fact that your solicitor now racked up 2x the estimated cost also raises a red flag- are they experienced enough to deal with your case?
A narcissist or any other personality disordered spouse is going to be a nightmare to divorce. They are scared to death of losing control, and they will fight with all means available to them. You cannot trust them. Not at all. I’m sorry you’re going through it. Message me if you need to vent some more x

Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 18:45

@RandomMess

Speak to NDV helpline again and ask if these threats are now enough to get an occupation order/restraining order.

Thank you. I don't think it will be. My solicitor has suggested this, but I tried talking to another solicitor who specialises in these and they said that I don't meet the threshold as I need to have been physically assaulted in the last 6 weeks.

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Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 18:48

@SweetBabyCheeses99

Do you think he’s defending the divorce because he actually thinks your marriage is saveable, just to be obtuse, or because his poor character might be publicly outed?

Perhaps it’s a bit of all of these, but maybe you need to play him at his own game. If he genuinely believes that you are emotionally abusive/neglectful/controlling then why not suggest that he petitions you for divorce instead? It doesn’t really matter matter who is the “wronged” party in the end, just agree and it will be done. If that’s not going to work then I think you might be better off just waiting the two years and doing it then.

He says that he recognises that it is over and has been for a long time. I spoke to one of his friends today. He has told the friend that he gets it and is moving on and was all cool about it. His friend was surprised at how unbothered he seemed about it and got the impression that this was an amicable split! He was acting to his friend, like a really reasonable guy - I wonder if everything he says is just hot air, but it's very expensive hot air!

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Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 18:50

I also think that I have spent so much money and this is at the stage where the court have issued the petition now so I need to keep going with it.

If I gave him that power, he wouldn't budge and I'd be stuck with him even longer I think.

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Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 18:55

@Notmyyearthisyear

I’m sorry to say that you are up for a very bumpy ride. Talking from experience. They will not let go unless they have to. The fact that your solicitor now racked up 2x the estimated cost also raises a red flag- are they experienced enough to deal with your case? A narcissist or any other personality disordered spouse is going to be a nightmare to divorce. They are scared to death of losing control, and they will fight with all means available to them. You cannot trust them. Not at all. I’m sorry you’re going through it. Message me if you need to vent some more x

Did this happen to you? Would love to hear how you eventually got through it.

I have wondered if my solicitor knows what she is doing here, but I have called her several times when he has been verbally abusive and threatening as i guess I needed the reassurance. This is where the costs have been pushed up. She has 30 years of experience and has been very kind (at a cost). Her stance is to not give way to him as he will just continue to mess about asking for ridiculous changes. She told me not to trust a word he says and to stop letting him control me.

Just makes me so very sad and scared. There is no need for any of this. I don't know why he can't just let go.

My biggest hope is that it's too late for him to back out of the tenancy he has just signed. He has also been prepping the kids for it so I would hope that he doesn't mess them about on this anymore than he already has.

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RandomMess · 05/12/2021 18:58

The helpline is really great and help you fill forms in etc you don't necessarily need to use a solicitor.

Notmyyearthisyear · 05/12/2021 18:59

I’m right in the middle of it and so can’t tell you how I got through it. But I will. I have no choice.
Abuse if abuse and whilst verbal /emotional is more difficult to prove it’s absolute nonsense that you can’t get an injunction just because he hadn’t hit you.

Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 19:29

@RandomMess

The helpline is really great and help you fill forms in etc you don't necessarily need to use a solicitor.

Thank you this could be really useful. Petition has been issued by court now though and he will receive it this week. I'm waiting for the rage. He is refusing to fill in forms etc so how could I do this without the courts?

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RandomMess · 05/12/2021 19:34

NDV will help you apply for occupation/restraining/non-mol order.

If he won't fill in forms to required for the divorce then yes you go via the courts.

Notmyyearthisyear · 05/12/2021 19:39

Depends which form you mean. Once notified of divorce proceedings, he will get 8 days to respond. If he doesn’t, you can take it forward 28 days later I think by proving to the court he received it (even a text etc.)
If you mean the financial disclosure form, first you ask. Then if he refuses the court will make him.
Re injunctions, if there’s been DV/DA go to courtnav website, run by citizens advice. You don’t need him for that lol

OldTotty · 05/12/2021 19:48

I am so sorry this is your situation. I have two friends with narcissistic ex husbands. If you are frightened please call the police. I can't offer any other help as i have a kind partner but don't suffer in silence. A better life is out there for you x

GrandmasCat · 05/12/2021 20:41

The one thing I found out about dealing with narcissists is that you either bore them to leave you or they will try to destroy you to win the “competition”.

Stop raising up to his behaviour, start grey rocking him, start doing radio silence, cut off all communication with him and even friends and family who could be “updating” him about how things affect you, he will be furious if you are happy or enjoying it if you are not but either way, any news that reach him will set him to no good.

If he gets bored he will leave you alone, if you do anything that touches his competitive side, he will keep going.

Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 05/12/2021 22:32

Wow. Bad evening. Ended up on the phone to women's aid again after he ambushed me in the living room and tried to get me to discuss whether or not I'd made the changes he told me to make to my urb claims. I said no I'm not having this conversation. He said he'd could only assume that's a no then and so I'd better get ready for court, he would now be going for full custody and reporting me to social services and then I will lose my job. Too and paying all his costs. And all this could have been avoided if I'd done what he told me to do.

I think this is all bullshit, but he said he'll cancel the tenancy agreement he's just signed in the morning and stay here. They bit might be true.😔😔😔😔

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RandomMess · 05/12/2021 23:12

Hugs

CheekyHobson · 06/12/2021 00:14

@GrandmasCat is right. It's really hard, but you have to just get really, truly clear on what you can regard as empty noise, threats and bluster and what he can or might actually do to harm you.

You do have responsibilities to him as a civilised human being – the same ones you would have towards any other adult in your life – but if those are fulfilled, you do not 'owe' him one iota more, regardless of what he thinks or says.

So, for example, if he self-harmed and you called the mental health teams to get him into a safe place where he is prevented from further harm and has access to professional help, you have fulfilled your duty to him as a responsible member of society.

It's not clear what he means by 'emotionally neglectful' but I don't think this is something he can take you to court over. He may feel that by not providing him a roof over his head while he's acting out, promising him to stay in your relationship because he wants you to, trying to be his own personal therapist because he won't seek professional help himself and not trying to talk him about of threatened suicide attempts you are 'emotionally neglectful' but this is just bluster and attempts to control you.

So please disregard his threats about going for full custody and making you lose your job. These are bullshit. But the making of the threats themselves is quite problematic behaviour on his part, and won't look good for him in court. So register those with your lawyer.

You just need to keep repeating to him, "If you're not happy with the proposed custody and separation agreement, you can write to my lawyer or pursue it in court. You know my position so I'm not going to discuss this with you further. If you continue making threats I will record this conversation so the court can decide whether it constitutes verbal abuse and harassment."

LargeProsecco · 06/12/2021 07:53

Ah, the threats of reporting you to social services & going for full custody. Typical abusive behaviour.

I had that too, and it was devastating on a personal level. As well as having implications for my job (I'm a HCP).

Try not to give him a reaction to that shite.

Instead, I self-reported to school, my regulatory body at work,,the police & social services saying that these allegations had been made. This was to protect myself if the allegations became public & to create a log of incidents.

This man is going to make your life hellish for a while. He is going to make it difficult, if not impossible for you to leave.

I found the police quite unhelpful; basically unless he was stopping me going out, accessing money etc, there was nothing they could charge him with. In some ways it would be better if he had hit me, at least that would have got him out.

Have you anywhere you can go, OP?

TherapyClient · 06/12/2021 11:48

@Ithinkitstime

I have been with my husband for 19 years. Married for 13. I have been trying to end this marriage for some time.

I told him it was over at the end of July/start of August and he went crackers. Lots of angry outbursts, threats and gaslighting ensued. He also self harmed quite badly and I had to involve the mental health crisis team.

All of his messing about and threats mean that my solicitor's fees are already more than I can afford and I have already paid double the original estimate for the entire process. I can no longer finance this without debt.

He has not accepted the URB claims and instead sent a huge response to my solicitor 10 minutes before the deadline saying that I was emotionally abusive and controlling, not him.

He also said that I was emotionally neglectful as he has mental health problems and I've stopped caring for him.

He has done a couple of things in the past that the police have investigated so I have revised my URB claims to include these as he is threatening to defend the divorce and he will be unable to defend those things. My solicitor has said that defending a divorce is rare, but he claims he is intent on doing it and insists that I will be made to pay all of his costs. He is on a lowish salary and the cost of defending will be a minimum of 10 grand, which he can't afford, but he still keeps up with this threat.

He is being all sweetness and light in person at the moment (though I am trying to grey rock as much as possible). Until he isn't being nice anymore. He has also been sending me photos of my daughter and my kittens today. Very strange when we are not speaking and he sent a threatening message earlier in the week.

He has finally found a rental property and applied for it. I assume he has paid a hefty deposit too. In the next few days he will receive the notification from court that the divorce is happening. I expect he will flip his lid at this point as he has been trying to bully me into changing the claims again and I haven't.

Today he is sending veiled threats that he will refuse to leave if I haven't done what we "discussed". Really this wasn't a discussion.

I'm living in a state of constant terror as I worry about antagonising him or being confronted and threatened. Sleep is, unsurprisingly, pretty terrible right now. I need him to leave so badly, and he is dangling that like a carrot in front of me.

The children - DD is 15 and DS is 10 are coping on the surface, but I know that they are suffering too. We all need to move on, but sadly he won't allow it and I know his behaviour will have a long-term impact on them.

I have a job with a heavy workload that I am managing to hold down successfully so far, but I fear for my health and sanity. Luckily, I love my job and it is a refuge for me right now, but every weekend is adrenaline fueled and hellish and leave me feeling sick.

All I long for is peace in my life. I feel that once he's gone this can start to happen.

I have spoken with the doctor twice. Have been in touch with Women's Aid and the NDV helpline and also social services. Have had a MIAM alone and have a certificate stating that this case is not suitable for mediation because of the emotional abuse and game playing.

I have listened to the love lure and loss podcast as recommended on mumsnet and think it is brilliant so thank you for that.

Any thoughts, ideas on what I might do next - other than holding my very frayed nerve would be gratefully received.

What's that YouTube thing? I think I need to watch it too!

Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 06/12/2021 18:14

Hi @TherapyClient. Not on YouTube a podcast. It's called Narcissists in Divorce: the lure, the loss and the law

Just search on your podcast app and it will come up. It's brilliant but no easy solutions I'm afraid

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LemonTT · 06/12/2021 18:48

I’m sorry OP but this may be one of those situations where you have to move out. Atm you are spending money using a solicitor as a therapist because he is there getting in your head.

What is the situation with housing, would he pay the mortgage and maintain the property of you left?

GrandmasCat · 06/12/2021 20:39

Op, you are not safe there. I suggest you contact the police again and ask them for details of local domestic abuse charities that can support you through this, provide counselling and even find you some safe place to stay.

I suggest stop calling your solicitor when you are upset, it serves no purpose as she may be good at reassuring you but honestly you can get that reassurance for free from friends of for a third of the price from a proper counselling professional.

Keep a record of all the nasty stuff he does, because the court won’t see the letters of your solicitor as evidence but will accept a log of incidents as credible evidence, the same goes for the police.

The log should be simple and straight to the point, just date, time and a couple of sentences about what happened. Keep it “factual”, just write what happened rather than your interpretation of the situation (ie. “He cornered me and threatened to “ rather than “he is trying to make me feel guilty about xyz”) That’s how I got the court to take me seriously.

With regards to the tenancy, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that pulls the rug under our feet like feeling we are going to end with no roof over our heads, it is our most basic necessity so basic that sometime we fail to protect ourselves and even our lives to keep it, but remember, the most important thing is for you to come out of this the less damaged that you can as you need to be in one piece to be able to trust people again to rebuild your life so put your emotional welfare over the roof. Sometimes when we lose what we care the most for… we find freedom.

Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 06/12/2021 21:14

So this was today: asked work for some time off this morning to report to police. They told me to take the whole day at least.
So I reported to police who logged it as a domestic incident.
I went to the bank to get statements on all my accounts and start the process of closing the joint account.
Then spent the day at my friend's so husband thought I was at work.
I told both children's headteachers so they could support.
I spoke to social services who are reopening a previously closed MASH with regards to this and the social worker talked me through making a safety plan. Spoke to my sisters and my dad.
Spoke to this charity www.dvassist.org.uk - really helpful and might be of use to some of you. They talked me through the process of applying for a non-mol and gave me forms and advice leaflets via email.
Went for a walk in the woods with my lovely friend 💕

Came back home and spent lovely time doing Christmas colouring with my son. Stayed out of way of husband who continues to act oddly.

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Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 06/12/2021 21:20

@LemonTT

I’m sorry OP but this may be one of those situations where you have to move out. Atm you are spending money using a solicitor as a therapist because he is there getting in your head.

What is the situation with housing, would he pay the mortgage and maintain the property of you left?

I have considered this. Not sure if he would pay mortgage and bills. Don't think he could afford to. I will be asking my parents if we can spend the Christmas holiday there though and, if he hasn't gone, will need to look for somewhere else to live in the new year.

You summed up the solicitor situ well. I will address this tomorrow along with sorting out the non mol application and speaking to The Legal Rights of Women phone-line.
I have another day off work and will be spending this with my parents. There's a few things I need to tell them too.

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Original poster

Ithinkitstime · 06/12/2021 21:24

@GrandmasCat

Op, you are not safe there. I suggest you contact the police again and ask them for details of local domestic abuse charities that can support you through this, provide counselling and even find you some safe place to stay.

I suggest stop calling your solicitor when you are upset, it serves no purpose as she may be good at reassuring you but honestly you can get that reassurance for free from friends of for a third of the price from a proper counselling professional.

Keep a record of all the nasty stuff he does, because the court won’t see the letters of your solicitor as evidence but will accept a log of incidents as credible evidence, the same goes for the police.

The log should be simple and straight to the point, just date, time and a couple of sentences about what happened. Keep it “factual”, just write what happened rather than your interpretation of the situation (ie. “He cornered me and threatened to “ rather than “he is trying to make me feel guilty about xyz”) That’s how I got the court to take me seriously.

With regards to the tenancy, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that pulls the rug under our feet like feeling we are going to end with no roof over our heads, it is our most basic necessity so basic that sometime we fail to protect ourselves and even our lives to keep it, but remember, the most important thing is for you to come out of this the less damaged that you can as you need to be in one piece to be able to trust people again to rebuild your life so put your emotional welfare over the roof. Sometimes when we lose what we care the most for… we find freedom.

Thank you. Yes you are right. I am no longer desperate to keep the house - looked at other properties and could afford something lovely for the children and I, but in the meantime who pays the mortgage and bills? Can I stop paying these if I move out? Can't pay to run two places at once and can't reasonably discuss this with him.

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