Husband Has Ended it - road to divorce

[itsovernow1]

Hi
I've had a thread in the Relationship section for a while, thought now we're actually heading for Divorce I'd post a new thread to update here.
All and any advice welcome.

Link to old thread [https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2814181-Husband-has-ended-it?pg=20] hopefully that worked!

Oversized bedding is such a pain to clean, too. (Trying to jam large quilts into the washing machine almost broke it.) A new mattress wants nice new bedding, don't you think? Just doesn't cost that much for something that brings so much happiness!

I wonder if you could rent a storage unit at some point (assuming not too expensive and on a month-to-month basis). I think you would make the money back when it comes time to sell, as less stuff in the house helps it to show to best advantage.

Storing things for a few months also lets you feel like you are starting with a clean slate. You get to choose what stays and what goes based on your new place, rather than a rush to pack and then have to live with boxes all around you for months. You want that sense of possibility, that feeling that whatever you do, it's your choice.

Oh for sure, I have already got my duvet and new bedding set to go, just need the bed!! (and another bedding set!)

I have thought about the storage unit ideas. It would only need to be a small one, enough to store a fair few boxes, like a closet! We do have a couple of places locally that offer that service, trouble is you have to ring or go there for a price (can't do it online) and that's my downfall. I need to work up to that kind of thing! I have a feeling it may be out of my price range but I can ask.

I've all but finished my name change, just my passport to go really, which I can do now as I have my driving licence back. I didn't want to be left with no photo ID. I will get a new pic for my passport as well as change the name, and then when I move I can change my pic and address for my driving licence at the same time (pic can be taken from my new passport - 2 birds one stone!). Also, I hope it means I won't need to get my pics countersigned any more, as the guy next door is a policeman and can sign them, once I move I won't know anyone suitable! Now I don't dye my hair, it's only age I need to contend with and hopefully that won't make me unrecognisable in future pics!

I think the storage unit idea will be easy to do when the time is right. Anything that keeps you from feeling overloaded is helpful, and anything that piles on is not helpful, iyswim.

You're probably too young to remember hope chests but they were a thing in an earlier time. I always liked the ones lined in cedar because that smells so good! Doesn't suit modern sensibilities, of course. But maybe it's a good time to revive the general concept, having a place to store hopeful things for the future you want, as you define it.

It doesn't have to be literally a big wooden trunk to haul around, maybe just a pretty box or basket? Some place for the books, the vacation garb, the lovely scented candles, the photo albums, oh yes, your passport, too, whatever brings you happiness. Something to balance against the tedious daily demands of obligation...

Every silver hair is well-earned, I always say, a symbol of one's pride in a life well-lived :-)

The storage unit idea is mainly down to cash. I could easily pack up stuff now to keep somewhere else, I mean, I hardly look at a lot of stuff - I just don't want to throw it away!

I remember the concept of hope chests yes, never had anything like that, even in small form though. I keep all my important documents in a small filing unit! (with a handle, so not too large!)

I've thrown caution to the wind and sent the passport application back with new pictures, without getting the pics countersigned! They only say to get them signed if you're not recognisable from your previous pic, so here's hoping they look past the hair! Posted earlier so it's too late now! We're not going abroad this yr or anything (or foreseeable future!) so there's no rush if they have a problem processing it.

STBX emailed a little while ago to ask if I'd sent all the required information to my SOL yet. I replied very loosely, yes I have. Something tells me he's paying top whack for his SOL, as he expects things to happen overnight when, even if I moan about my SOL, I know they have other clients and letters need to be written etc... Takes a little bit of time. Just a shame he wasn't so 'on the ball' last yr when we could have got things really moving, but no, he kept me waiting. I don't feel guilty keeping him waiting!

After looking around online, it seems even a small storage unit can be about £20-£30 per WEEK! LOL! Definitely not in my price range! Oh well.

After looking around on right move, the house prices seem to be doing OK for our type of property so I'm still hoping the lower figure is achievable.

That does sound expensive for a small storage unit. A 10ft x10ft unit here runs around $120/month, however that converts monetarily. The only problem with the units here is that everything one stores gets covered with a layer of dust in no time. Very annoying.

I'm confident you'll do very well when the time to sell arrives, as far as getting a good price. The daunting part will be lining up new digs to coincide with moving out of old digs? That's the part I would find stressful. (Another thing where STBX has an advantage, already having a place, doesn't have to find a new place, does he?) Nonetheless, do you think he's now in a hurry? Maybe he has decided he needs a cash infusion.

Have you looked up average sell times? That also helps you get a feeling for where you stand in the local housing market. Selling the house is going to be an emotional experience on so many fronts, balanced by enormous relief, I imagine!

I was expecting the size of a small walk-in wardrobe for about £30 per month! But nope.... Oh well. There's probably a fair bit I can chuck away and then hopefully when the garage is tidied out (when STBX can be arsed and the weather is to his liking) I can store some boxed out there neatly.

Oh yep, the whole process of selling/buying is something I'm going to be stressed about. I've said before I hate change and this is gonna be a doozie! Plus as you say, STBX doesn't have to find a place like I do when this sells. That in itself will be stressful but add in having strangers looking around my home (on the net and in person!). It's not a time to start drinking!

Actually that's one thing I'm trying to stay calm about, his OW seeing my home on the net. And he will show her, guaranteed. I will try to pack away as many personal items as possible so it's only the bare bones in pics (as it were) but it still annoys me.

No idea on average sale times and really they're irrelevant if I can't find a place! I won't settle for just anything I'm not happy with just to make this place sell on time.

Yes, the garage is a godsend for getting things out of the house and out of sight. (Though I find out of sight turns into out of mind rather easily!) Have you read any of Marie Kondo and her suggestions about getting rid of things you don't love and only keeping things that give you joy? I'm not sure there is ever much joy to be found in decluttering. But it's a nice theory. Mostly it's incredibly boring to go through old stuff unless you find an occasional emotional land mine from the past.

I hear you about not wanting to share your personal life when you sell the house. However, I'd be tempted to put up large family photos in every room, on the bookshelves, the fireplace mantle, the kitchen counter... let OW feast her eyes on that :-) I suppose it would be wasted on her as she probably has no sense of shame but you might enjoy using the occasion to make a statement, a tasteful statement, of course. She may think there will never be sand in her gears but that's not how life works. Sigh.

I am angry right now and feel - 'bullied' - for want of a better word right now.

STBX hasn't provided a lot of the information I'm being asked for re: my Form E , so why should I give it to them??? I really see no reason why my future mortgage is relevant to his SOL, it won't affect the equity greatly, I mean we're talking £10k different between 50/50 or 60/40 split. And it's my last piece of privacy. He knows where I live, where I work, what I get paid, and I think that's enough. HE hasn't provided that information so why the hell should I?!?! I've asked my SOL if it's a legal requirement as it's not something you need to disclose on Form E anywhere.
Having done quick calculators online for him and OW, they could borrow quite a nice sum - and I mean NICE sum - and if, as I suspect she has savings they will easily buy a property they want without using all their mortgage or savings. They're a lot better off than I suspected.

The payments into a 'mystery' acct aren't a mystery any more. It's an old acct WE shut last yr and divided up the final amount equally. We both signed a home made form and kept a copy. Nothing sinister going on and one I'd genuinely forgotten about as we didn't use it (until Jan last yr before he moved out and I changed the other spare account into my personal savings acct). I can justify all the payments and have even pointed out that I didn't pay one back (for my 1st SOL appt £120) as I didn't have the money. I also pointed out that STBX's first rental deposit of £415 came out of our joint savings in Jan and he never paid that back either...... so really it's even. So they got the year wrong - not 2018! - and tried to catch me out with a 'secret' acct.

STBX also put on his Form that he didn't know of any assets or liabilities his OW has - um, you live together and you don't know that?? Recipe for disaster.....unless you're lying?? Hmmm. She definitely has a car. And I'd say savings as well, having lived with mummy for quite a while it seems.

STBX isn't taking me seriously about DD living with him, and he won't I feel. I will be pointing out at some point that he is liable for child maintenance if DD lives with me and I will make sure he pays it - either voluntarily or going via the CSA. (as I said, I would pay if she lived with him). But I get the feeling he thinks once she's 18 he's 'off the hook'. No mate. You're not. She's going back to college for at least a yr and while I can claim child benefit then CM is payable. Spiteful? Probably but he's being so blasé about it all I really don't care any more. If he took me seriously and we talked about it then fine, but he's ignoring it and telling DD she's staying here. That's out of line. and so damn presumptuous.

He sounds awful and adult children do need a home when older. I was lucky enough to keep working full time and I could buy my husband out and keep the house and didn't change my name back (so none of your complications) but in our case the oldest child was about to go to university and there certainly are expenses at that stage and all those holidays they live at home in and in fact the older ones all lived at home for a bit after graduating. the costs so not simply disappear at 18.

Good luck with it all. You seem to have been through an awful lot and are doing well.

I don't think he's that bad - as a person - but he's definitely being led by OW and his SOL, friends, parents etc...

I will be challenging his Form E re: her assets etc... as my dad has pointed out that his future financial position could benefit greatly from whatever she has and I know it's sounds spiteful, but it's not really, it's on Form E and if I have to disclose everything so does he. At the moment it seems very one sided.

I'm bitter tbh. I admit that. Since he moved out he's had freedom to do what he wants when he wants. I haven't had that, instead I've had grief from DD. He spouts on, in his Form E, about doing less hours because it's better for his mental health, on antidepressants and having therapy because it's for his health etc... What about my health?? I work more than him now (for half the money) and am having to wait for CBT on the NHS whereas I get the impression he's gone through work (as he told me he could and brought a leaflet home).

I have a feeling I will be forced into a situation of having DD live with me when I don't want her to. And tbh, I will only get worse with my health. She may be going back to college in Sept but without a job she'll still not have her own money. Who pays for her bus pass?? I can't. STBX will probably only go half. She doesn't do anything around the house unless I ask - she hasn't cleaned her room for weeks.

She can be helpful (i.e. recent decorating) but is just oblivious. I ask her to do certain things but she 'forgets' (after having a bath/shower, open the bloody window!, wipe down the walls so they're not soping wet). Put your towel back in the bathroom not left on your bed!! Minor things I know, but they add up. It's tiring.

Moan over. I need to go have lunch and just relax. Doesn't help she's out with STBX now. i just need him out of my life so I can keep focussed.

This is awful for you. Why do you think STBX is playing hardball like this? What does he stand to gain?

Maybe he is easily lead by OW and others but he is responsible for his choices and he is choosing to make things difficult.

From a technical point of view, it's not clear how OW's assets come into play as they are not married. Can you really force her to reveal what she contributes when they are not legally bound to each other?

It must be very painful to feel this much anger. STBX may hide behind others, SOL, OW, friends, but there's something about this whole situation that seems personal, he's acting as if he is the wronged party.The inherent unfairness of this has to be infuriating for you.

On the plus side you sound good angry! You have a sharp focus on what you need to happen. That's exactly right for you.

i just think he wants control now. Not sure why.

Her assets come into play as they live together, married or not, they are co-habiting so her assets (and liabilities if she has any) are shared as they have a joint bank account.
Form E asks for this information, so from a legal standpoint he should have answered it but didn't. He should have also spelt out what the £1000 loan from her was (as I have been asked to confirm my Dad's loan was just that, a loan, for the car). No doubt they will also have a joint mortgage when they purchase their new place.

If she has assets in cash to put towards a house purchase then that will also benefit STBX. Personally I don't really care but if he wants to play hard-ball and ask for all my information then so be it.

Every time he contacts me or my SOL does I admit I get so worked up. My SOL sent her email last night literally just before I went to work so I couldn't read it properly and digest it. Then obviously when I got home, going to sleep was difficult as all these ideas were going round in my head.
I just feel it's being strung out for no reason at all. Neither of us are rolling money, the equity is the only thing to sort out. But that's proving difficult.

He took DD out again today as I said, and they were gone a while, when she got back she had a (paper) shopping bag so I know they went to 1 of 2 towns nearby where that particular shop is. Not clear who bought what's in the bag but hopefully he did. I just get worked up when he's on the scene. I will feel happier if she lived with him, I wouldn't wonder if she's saying anything (by accident) about me. (she did tell my Sis a while ago, while they were still talking - long story - that he always asked about me just to check I was ok. That was out of order). I don't want to feel (unintentionally) spied on.

I have a lot of issues to sort out with this CBT stuff (when it comes round, still waiting.....) and whether rational or not, I can't help the way I feel. I want nothing to do with him or that OW. And sadly DD is in the middle of that. Not healthy for her or me. I need to feel in control and I don't right now.

Angry and focussed or not, I just hope it's not a legal requirement to give the mortgage information to his SOL. That's crossed the line for me. And if he's made to also give that info, how do I know it hasn't been changed to make his situation look better (or worse, depending on how you look at it) for the settlement? Mine is on the level, as it was just for my eyes only, but his? He'll know in advance to give the figure.

Spelling out your future needs indicates what proportion of the assets you will need, I'm guessing. In which case, spelling out every last expense would be to your advantage, would it not?

Especially if OW's assets are included in deciding who gets what, it seems only fair that you should get more of the assets you shared with STBX. (Some people recommend using an online budget planner so you can figure out exactly what your expenses are likely to be: Budget Planner Tool)

You will have expenses that might be easy for you to overlook beyond the obvious ones, such as housing. There are yearly expenses to do with your vehicle or occasional trips to the dentist. It all adds up. And if you are maintaining a room where DD can live or visit during her university years, bedding, towels, curtains, food, on and on it goes.

Of course this is all best explained by your SOL, as this is just my best guess. If do you find reading about the experience of others to be helpful, there is an interesting discussion of this subject here on Mumsnet: Mumsnet Another wild guess: OW and STBX have more to disclose than they have so far?

Try not to overthink as that will just stress you out. Your SOL needs to explain what's at stake here so you can proceed with confidence and not have your blood pressure soaring.

I've done my Form E which has the future expenses part, I admit I don't really have much to add apart from household stuff, car stuff and other misc like dentist etc... I don't drink, smoke, go out much, buy clothes or jewellery or shoes. I am quite simple! I buy what I need at the time. I could spend more but I try to control that!

My only vices are liking to eat out when I don't want to cook (or get a pizza delivered, once a month maybe less so not really a common thing) and wanting to do things like go away to theme parks or day trips out but I never really do them as I don't have the confidence or 'get up and go'! They are just wants right now. I'd love to go back to Florida, I love Disney - not so much the characters/movies etc.. but the atmosphere and the things to do. I am hoping that I can go at least once more during the next part of my life, alone or with someone I'm not fussed. I'd like to stay on-site rather a villa.

I got the feeling reading through STBX's future expenses part that he took his monthly wage and worked it all out to make it fit. He got so close to the total that's the only way I can think he did it.

I said to my sis/dad yesterday in my email that since this began I don't feel I understand things any more than when I started!
It's like the future mortgage stuff - my SOL says I need to give it to the other SOL but is that because they asked and my SOL thinks it's better just to give it to them to keep the peace OR is it a legal thing and I NEED to give it to them?? I am going to ask as it's something I really believe in. If it affects the final equity figure so be it. It's my decision to make if not a legal one. If it's a legal one then why didn't STBX include it with his Form?? Personally I think I'm already giving too much information but that's from a personal point of view as I feel I don't have any privacy left. May as well just give them my passwords and let them get on with it!

I am a person that likes clear concise instructions, I don't feel I'm getting them. I know my SOL can't tell me what to do but she could give me options backed up by facts.
I get worked up because it's my nature I think. I stew on things if I get worried about them!

I did do some online calculations yesterday, re: STBX/OW wages and mortgages. Depending on their deposit they could borrow a bit more than I was expecting (even adding some expenses for them for a car loan etc..).

"...give me options backed up by facts". Absolutely, insist on it. Now is the decision making time. I suspect you can say something general, like you want to cover the expenses of a home, a vehicle, savings for old age, etc., without saying you expect to pay exactly X per month for each of those things. But your SOL needs to confirm that is an acceptable strategy for you.

Disneyland in California is fun because there are so many other neat things to see nearby, like Hollywood and the Coast Highway. The drive along the Coast towards San Francisco takes you past some of the most beautiful places, like Santa Barbara, Monterey and Carmel. I'm not much for travel but this is worth it. The best part is hardly any bugs in California :-)

The ocean is beautiful on both sides of the country but the Pacific is much more dramatic. Disneyland is amazing and so is Las Vegas, actually, which is a short plane trip away from LA. I don't care for gambling but the non-stop light show in Vegas is incredible. The Coast road south towards San Diego is lovely, too, and only takes a few hours. You can rent a car or take a bus almost everywhere out West if you don't want to drive. You'd have a blast. Definitely something to look forward to!

Struggling this week. Just can't get motivated. I keep filling in this bloody monthly form for the nhs therapy. Still on the waiting list. Not sure it's worth bothering with as it's never-ending. I don't even tell the truth on the crucial part of the form, mainly as if I do they'll ring me. I hate talking on the phone as it is (and I mean hate, hence the reason I didn't want phone counselling) so this just makes me bend the truth which isn't right.
I could have easily put a 7/8 this time but I put a 1 instead. I put a 4 once and they called, then I did a 3 and they still called, so now I go with the least and they don't bother me. All they do is use that 'soft' voice (almost patronising, like talking to child) and ask silly questions. I don't find that 'soothing', I'm sure some people do, but not me.

My SOL replied to my email. I agree with most of it but I will not provide the future mortgage capacity information. If a judge/the courts insist on it then fine but otherwise, no, he's not getting that information. I need to stand firm on what I FEEL and believe. This is the only thing that is private for me so far, he knows about everything else and I hate that. She still seems to imply she wants me to give it to them, but I can't back down on this.

I'm sorry to hear you didn't have such a great week. You got upset by the mortgage question, I can tell. Did you get any sense as to why they want that information?

I got the impression the information was used to calculate how your assets get divided based on "future needs". As in, what do you anticipate you will need to cover a mortgage payment? But I can see why that would also make you feel like "none of your business, bucko!".

A lot of people here were encouraging you to go for more than 50/50. Maybe STBX's SOL anticipates you asking for more than 50/50 and wants you to justify it. At the end of the day you have to do what feels right to you.

Yes future mortgage capabilities as you are selling the house etc help decide what people need. We didn't do Form E as we only had joint accounts and knew each other's finances like the back of our hand which saved quite a bit of effort.

As to whether you have to fill in the information loads of people don't fill in forms properly and some get taken back and back to court to force information out of them. Many divorces settle without any hearings and not much disclosure as people just compromise on both sides. So if the question is are you obliged to give the information requested - yes. If you don't what will happen - the judge might decide you have the ability to get a bigger mortgage than you can and decide you would be properly housed. However it's fairly easy to know what people can borrow if you know their salary and have access to the internet so it's not really rocket science just to guess.

To be honest I'm already going with 50/50 in my head.

My SOL has explained if we were in a court environment it would be required by law, but as we are not it's not legally required, only being given would show 'willing'. I would gladly do anything the courts asked, but for my STBX's SOL? Nope, he didn't disclose that so why should I??

I have given my income details and as you say, you can work that out quite easily using the internet. For me to rehouse properly I'd need ALL the equity, which won't happen obviously. Whatever figure the mortgage advisor gave me is, in a way, irrelevant, as I won't be using anywhere near the amount they have worked out, mainly as I don't want to put myself back in debt with something I can't afford should anything happen. If I give that information over to my STBX's SOL they will use that as fact, whereas it's not, it's a 'suggestion'. (I'm not talking a large difference here, maybe £5k at most!).

I will be replying to my SOL later saying I'm happy with what she's proposing to send back but will not oblige with the mortgage information. I understand that it will result in a lower offer but I'm adamant I won't hand it over. If a court asks I will, by law, but not before. 'Cutting my nose off to spite my face' comes to mind but right now I don't care. The £10K difference of a 50/50 or 60/40 split won't matter in the end (mainly as the SOL fees are eating away any other money I may have to use). They've already accused me of hiding an account so I am somewhat bitter. Going on the equity and a mortgage I will be living in a studio flat anyway so not really living the high life.

STBX isn't taking me seriously about DD living with him which is a mistake, for him - her - and me. I will not be forced into a situation I can't afford. And right now STBX seems to be doing that.

It does seem like STBX /OW don't particularly want DD to share their nest. Maybe they figure the pressure point on you is you will get less of the assets if you don't take her on, you get more if you do.

Regardless, you ought to be able to properly rehouse yourself. How much of this unfairness is inherent in the process? It doesn't seem right that your standard of living gets changed so dramatically.

Oh they definitely haven't planned on her living with them. I've mentioned it and he didn't even come back with a reply. Hasn't mentioned it since either. But he needs to entertain it as her college course will need to continue.

They can pressure all they want, 50/50 is as low as we can go and 60/40 as high as we can go. Still won't change anything. The situation is what it is. I just want to get it sorted as the more I live here the more I get depressed. I know it will all be changing and I'll lose my garden (and mature plants/tree etc..), that will be hard. I chose the one tree we have and it's lovely (an Acer), the leaves turn red in autumn. I'm not a gardener (I prefer things you plant and just leave!) but I do appreciate it.

I know that living in a smaller place will mean less money spent on bills, which is a good thing. I will really struggle if I can't get outside space though (even a balcony would be nice).
I also know a smaller place means less stuff, which will also be tough as I have way too much to sort through! I am a simple person and all I really want is a nice place to live in a nice area.

Would 60/40, 60 going to you, be enough to cover the extra expense of DD living with you?

I love Japanese maples and wondered if you could grow a small one inside? Most people say not inside, too much of a challenge, but possibly on a balcony. English gardens are very inspiring to look at in picture books!