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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Support for those starting the divorce process

999 replies

hermione2016 · 26/09/2016 09:29

Just wondered how many of us are embarking on divorce and would value some support.

After a disastrous holiday over the summer we are divorcing.Stbxh is divorcing me as he said he would defend a divorce petition from me.He has yet to get a solicitor and my solicitors advised that I set a deadline for him to start the process.

We have 1 dc and were together 15 years.I feel I've had years of EA, at best ex has very low emotional intelligence but is arrogant so would never see it.At worst he's an angry bully.I need to stop trying to figure "why he does what he does" but I'm quite an over thinker. We are in the same house and trying to get it sold.Just organising it going on the market which in itself is stressful.

I know ex will be hostile, he's already refusing to share financial stuff and stating I will have none of his pension.I am happy just to get it all out in the open and let the solicitors sort a reasonable split.I will have less than I have today but hopefully greater peace of mind.

Anyone else wanting to get some support on the journey, to hopefully a happier life?

OP posts:
PandoraMole · 24/10/2016 12:56

lettings I will not be negotiating or getting advice on leggings GrinBlush!

PandoraMole · 24/10/2016 13:17

That would be lettings - have never had to negotiate about leggings GrinBlush!

WeAreNotInKansasAnymore · 24/10/2016 14:10

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WeAreNotInKansasAnymore · 24/10/2016 14:10

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JaffaCakesMum · 24/10/2016 14:12

Pandora, I love your Plan B, I had never thought of that before. If we have to sell the house which we own outright then half of the equity is unlikely to get me a place for me and my two teenage DD's. I had just assumed that I would fritter away the money on rent but I would be able to buy something and rent it out and the rent money will go towards my own rent. I am on a basic wage rate so even when I start working full time I still won't get much of a mortgage and even if I did I wouldn't be able to pay it. Your bad news has a silver lining, for me anyway.

I also love your idea of dealing with a leggings company, lol.

Helpmeltb · 24/10/2016 14:37

pandora I have a similar back up plan. Having spoken to broker, I'm going to struggle to buy somewhere big enough unless I move into rented first (as then I can claim maintenance etc. -mortgage won't be assessed on that income unless I'm already claiming it) but rentals for single mums with 2 kids are like gold dust here.

PandoraMole · 24/10/2016 15:40

Glad to be of use!

Helpme I think it may take us a while to find somewhere suitable for us as a home as we really need 2 double bedrooms and a bit of private outdoor space. Also hoping for a long let and a landlord that will let us decorate a bit.

Letting agent I spoke to thought it was doable within budget though.

Helpmeltb · 24/10/2016 16:12

I'm in a difficult position. Stbxh wants to keep the current 4 bed detached house so in theory he needs to buy me out with enough for a 3 bed so its fair for the kids (similar standard of living). So really I need to find an affordable 6 month rental in the current town (childcare timings) to claim everything (makes 50k difference to the mortgage I can get). Problem is that I'm competing with professional couples for lets and a bigger family house rental is a bit too expensive.

PandoraMole · 24/10/2016 17:04

That does sound like a logistical nightmare.

I was hoping DH would buy me out with some help from his parents but they are unable unwilling in my view to do so.

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 24/10/2016 17:23

Starting a new job just a few weeks after leaving the ex was such a bad idea, I am really, really struggling. I left the marital home (it's an HA house as we lost our own home when ex was declared bankrupt when his business went tits up), I am living between my sister's place and some friends sofas. My mental health is suffering, I am likely to walk away from this with sod all to try to start again with as there is no money, I am still paying the rent on the HA tenancy as it comes out of my bank account and I don't want him not to pay and get black marks against our names credit wise.

PandoraMole · 24/10/2016 20:48

hell I really feel for you. We're very lucky to have the stability of being with my parents but not actually having a home of your own when you're used to it is so stressful, so can't imagine how tough you're finding it.

Wrt the housing association tenancy, have you though about giving Shelter a call for advice? They can help with all sorts of housing situations not just 'on the streets' type homelessness.

rememberthetime · 24/10/2016 23:00

I had all kinds of issues getting my new rental. I am now in an apartment with two good sized bedrooms and because it is a small development, it feels like a house to me.No garden though.

But I am self employed and could only prove 6 months worth of income. So I had to go round about 10 agents before I found one willing to take me on. I had to jump through hoops, until I pointed out that I am a homeowner (in fact I also own a rental but there is no income that comes from it). This helped secure a place for us.

I have agreed to wait 2 years until my H sells the house - but i will get the increase in equity, so its OK. The plan is to buy a small 1 bed and rent it out so I at least have a property in my name and somewhere to live in my old age.

But in two years I might have built up my business and be raking it in. Now that i have less anxiety, that seems possible. Or i might be remarried to a wonderful man who is well...loaded. The feminist me hates that thought - if i was in love I wouldn't mind if he wanted to share his substantial income....

user1474193901 · 25/10/2016 02:07

Sorry in advance for the long post... And all the typo's. Need to offload desperately

Another horrendous evening. My STBEXH Narc has done it again. Last week under threat from me of court he agreed to another mediation saying he would agree to a clean break settlement in my favour for me and my 2DC. He then emailed me earlier to say he would require a letter from my financial advisor to say what I am likely to be able to get in the way of a mortgage. He financial declaration was half lies, half missing... Now he's cancelled the mediation stating he needs more time to get the paperwork (eg bank statements etc) he was asked to supply months ago. So the offer was just another control thing and a stalling tactic to stop me going getting the FM1 from the mediator last week prior to court.
I've had years of emotional abuse and control. Tonight it all got too much. I rang the Women's Aid helpline. I can't cope with this control from him - the pretending to be reasonable - then dropping another bomb shell. Today's bombshells were: 1. he's cancelled the mediation even though last week he said he would confirm his offer settlement, as he's tired of fighting. 2. he's decided not to see his DC every Wednesday (apparently it just not worth it for one evening) - his words not mine, so they will see him every other weekend and every other Wednesday. No consultation on this, we were just TOLD. 3 he's taking our car in 3 weeks, leaving me with no alternative at the moment than to use taxis. Until the finances are sorted I cannot buy another vehicle.

He's played me again hasn't he? I threaten court on a Tuesday if he doesn't agreed a settlement by the Thursday. He agrees to settle. Asked me to make the mediation appointment. I make it. He request stuff from me prior to the meeting this Thursday. Then he cancels tonight at 11pm.
He had no intention of settling did he?

I had the Decree Nisi read on the 20th. I guess I'll have to go to court to stop him getting The Decree Absolute issued as there is no consent order in place as yet... I'm guessing that's another reason for him stalling.

I am so upset. I actually rang Women's Aid tonight. I just needed advice about the emotional anise and the controlling stuff. I Blubbed for an hour on the phone to a complete stranger ,
I just can't see a way out of all this.
Plus I am now told I should be getting legal aid as its domestic abuse... Why was I. It told this? What happens now re: my solicitor?

Where the hell do I go from here?

Me2017 · 25/10/2016 08:08

user, that's awful. My divorce was over 10 years ago but I still remember how it felt. There is a way out of it.

If you apply for something like a non molestation order I believe you can still have legal aid although you may find it hard to find a soliciutor who takes legal aid as the rates they are paid are very very low so not that many not surprisingly want to do it and it may not be that easy to prove abuse but worth a try. (I had to pay both side's solicitors - ouch... as I earned more).

You will need to stop the decree absolute as you need the financial order in place before it goes ahead. My ex was more reasonable. We didn't even bother with a mediation and just reluctantly agreed the sums I would pay him for his clean break. He also left me both cars (our older children drive) but they were £1k wrecks and he got just under £1m from me so he did not do too badly.

If he earns more than you do surely you can apply for interim maintenance = payments from him pending the divorce which could cover things like the mortgage, childcare costs, bus fares?

Whether he insists on it or not it is a good idea to get confirmation of what mortgage you can get as without knowing that most financial settlements are a waste of time really. i was very lucky to be able to remortgage the house to pay my ex (and give him all my life savings, all my shares and I took on over £1m of debt.. ow....) At least I was able to keep the children's home.

On contact I have had to assume he never has the chidlren ever and pay for childcare accordingly as I work full time which is pretty awful or has been when they were younger. I would take a week's holiday o ver the summer so we could go away and he would have 8 weeks off school not working but not have the children even for a night. We shoudl be able to require men to look after their children. This right they have which they can choose to exercise or not and chop and change all the time or not turn up is not fair on children or mothers who work.

user1474193901 · 25/10/2016 09:10

Dear me2017
He does earn more than me I reality but not in paper... He's self employed and at the moment he claims last year to only have earnt £13k! His outgoings are double that! He's using his credit card debit as a reason for the difference in the two figures, but he has also been finishing the renovation on the property, having holidays, doing all his leisure activities and basically living it up mom quite amazed at how far he's has made his £13k go.
However my dilemma is that my solicitor has told me it will cost me upwards of 20k to take him through court. But I don't have an option if he doesn't settle prior to this. I woul have thought he'd want to stay out of court with HMRC Etc. I've got a matrimonial right of interest on the house - my name used to be on the deeds but that was renewed when he remortgaged - he said it was easier and quicker! (His earning on paper were more honest then and not this poxy amount)
So on paper I earn a lot more than him... But it's all b-shit.

I haven't stopped skating since last night mice stopped being sick now thankfully.
I just don't understand it... He's got his freedom, his women, his independence... The only thing he's lost so far is his children's respect and control over me.
Thankfully he can't see what a wreck he made of me today.
I've no idea what today will hold. It's like he lights a box of fireworks and just sits back and watched it go off

PandoraMole · 25/10/2016 09:36

user147...first (((hugs))) and Cake - he sounds like a cockwomble of the highest order.

I'm glad you were able to get some support from Women's Aid - they're great. Have you though about doing the Freedom Programme if you haven't already. It might help you stay strong as you move forward and meet some other women who can offer RL support.

I suppose the first thing you need to do on a practical front is find out about the legal aid, then book a solicitors appointment. If it's at all possible I'd just go right ahead with the initial court stuff. It'll presumably only cost £20k if it goes all the way, and it may well not once he realises you're taking no prisoners on that front.

Then I'd try and address the car issue and if he's not already paying it, maintenance for the kids.

Then...be kind to yourself. Do you have the time/space/funds for a bit of a treat this evening? I spent yesterday afternoon face down in a colouring book then cba to cook so ordered Chinese for DD and I and had a couple of glasses of wine. Nothing elaborate or too expensive but felt very indulgent for a Monday and perked me up no end!

hellhasnofurylikeahungrywoman · 25/10/2016 15:09

And today is payday except I haven't been paid. Bollocks. Life really does like to kick you when you are down.

PandoraMole · 25/10/2016 17:10

Ugh! Is it something that can be sorted out quite quickly?

I've just found out how much my solicitor charges to draft a consent order...Looks like that'll be a DIY job too then!

WeAreNotInKansasAnymore · 26/10/2016 08:54

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PandoraMole · 26/10/2016 09:57

Mine is £600 including VAT plus court fee of £50.

There are DIY templates online and online services that will check them over and amend for around £300.

In previous incarnations I've been both a journalist and a legal secretary so am fairly confident I could draft my own but a lot of online advice sited suggest that you must have a solicitor do it. I might make some further enquiries - see if I could draft it then just get my solicitor to check it over within her hourly rate of £180.

STBXH is seeing his solicitor tomorrow and is going to see what they charge.

My mum is the biggest issue at the moment. She is not really happy with us living here and is constantly undermining me and my decision, telling me I'm crazy and won't be able to cope, that I'll lose all my friends and I should give him another chance as she thinks he has definitely changed and she feels sorry for him.

The way things are going I'm not sure I'll have a relationship with her by the end of this either Sad Angry.

WeAreNotInKansasAnymore · 26/10/2016 11:09

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Me2017 · 26/10/2016 11:29

rememberthe, it is a difficult issue, when to get the consent order. If you get it sooner then all is final. If you wait 2 years as you say your income may go up and he might have claims on that. In England, not scotland, finances are decided on the date of divorce not the date of parting or separation which has huge implications for things like property price rises between separation and divorce/consent order or property drops or inheritances or redundancies and wage rises and even remarriage and cohabitation issues.

On consent order without a solicitor I am a solicitor (not family law) and I would not have drafted by own but we had quite a bit of equity at stake so it woudl not have been worth the risk. It probably takes for the £600 about 3 hours of the lawyers' time which is genuinely what it might take. rather than some kind of over charging. If you do it yourself make sure it deals with everything - all property, all outstanding issues, debts. Eg if it talks about who sells the house make sure it covers who is in charge of that, who shows people round, if it goes at auction if not sold by X date, what happens if in fact the mortgage company will not let one person off the mortgage.

If it covers payments for children make sure you deal with end dates. Ours says I pay university costs too for example. Those are just the sort of things someone who drafts these orders all the time will think of so if you don't go down the lawyer route just do a load of reading on line.

Also if ti is not a fair offer the judge will not rubber stamp it even if both sides agree it particularly where no solicitors are used so make sure it is reasonable to both husband and wife.

PandoraMole · 26/10/2016 12:13

Me2017 that's really helpful.

All ours needs to say is that the house will be marketed by x agent and that no offer will be accepted unless we are both in full agreement.

On completion the equity will be split 50/50 (am going to actually suggest 51% in my favour as I am taking very little in the way of contents), and paid directly by the solicitors to each of us at that time.

We will each be responsible for our own personal debts at the time of divorce going through.

It needs to state a monthly maintenance amount for DD to finish when she is 18 or 21 depending if she goes to uni, in which case if she lives away from home he can pay that money directly to her.

There are no pensions to speak of so the only other clause is that it constitutes full and final settlement and neither of us have any claim on the others future earnings.

So very straightforward really. Will definitely do a lot more research.

I have said I will pay to file the divorce petition as it is me that has instigated it, but any other legals costs will be shared so at least am only looking at half of that £650.

Me2017 · 26/10/2016 12:35

I think the main thins is to make it clear if it is a clean break or not.
Some solicitors will put in even just 1p a year spousal maintenance if acting for the lower earner as that means the spouse can go back later for more. If instead (as we had) there is no spousal maintenance just a clean break then that optino is removed and in my case I was glad it was removed as the last thing I wanted was to pay my ex maintenance for life.

On the house sale it is very common for a spouse who wants to be difficult or does not want to leave the home to mess up all potential sales, not show people round, not contact the agent, not open the door so sometimes you need it to be clear that the agent holds the keys and can show people round and if not sold by XYZ date then perhaps it goes to auction. If you both want it sold and you know local prices for recent sales (sold prices not advertised prices) then it may not be a problem.

"On completion the equity will be split 50/50 (am going to actually suggest 51% in my favour as I am taking very little in the way of contents), and paid directly by the solicitors to each of us at that time." That suonds good. You might want to add that that is after costs of sale - estate agent fees, solicitors' fees.

"We will each be responsible for our own personal debts at the time of divorce going through." If you have any joint debts other than the mortgage then whatever the consent order says in law you are both liable for say a joint credit card so try to make sure there are none of those.

"It needs to state a monthly maintenance amount for DD to finish when she is 18 or 21 depending if she goes to uni, in which case if she lives away from home he can pay that money directly to her."
Yes and to cover what if she lives with a different parent over the years. Ours unusually says whoever the children live with supports them - it is usually the other way round and my ex didn't want them even for a night a year (except that I higher earner pays school and university costs - uni. fees were £1k when I divorced and next year will be £9k each for the twins).

Make sure you cover 18 and still at school. Mine just turned 18 byut will be school until July next year. Also consider post grad. My two daughters both did 2 years law post grad after university. So that was 5 years - university and post grad. I tink there is a legal right in England for a child of a non resident parent to apply to court to have the parent they don't live with in university holidays help towards unviversity costs but that's a different point.

Also usually child maintenance has a reduction when the child is living with the othe rparent so 7 nights a week with mother more maintenance than if it is 5 nights a week. Things change over time. Also whateer you agree if his income reduces he can apply to court to reduce the child maintenance.

We had equal pensions so just kept our own.

I think the order should say the order is accepted in full and final satisfaction.
My ex worked for me part time fairly casually but I suggested we also had an employment compromise agreement too so any claims he had in that area were settled.

It is common to have a secrecy clause too. In fact a friend recently was asking about his divorce and his wife wanted him to return certain photos to her which they have agreed now to destroy.

You shoudl also deal with the contents of the house. Our consent order says we divide them by agreement and after divided are the property of the party concerned. (in practice we had no problem with that probably because most of the furniture was a load of junk and none of us had expensive jewellery or paintings or cars).

it is good to say there is no claim over the property of the other other than as stated in the order.

We had a bit about the massive lump sums I had to pay then.. ouch. Then that as long as mym ex was paid that the house was then transferred to me ( not relevant to you as you are both selling the house)

Then something about other than as set otu in the order all other claims such as to pension sharing, property adjyustment, financial sharing, claims under MCA and IPFDA 75 Act dismissed.
And that I paid his legal costs within 14 days (ouch again.....)

We also said that joint savings accounts (we had most money in joint names) would go into my name.

There are no pensions to speak of so the only other clause is that it constitutes full and final settlement and neither of us have any claim on the others future earnings.

So very straightforward really. Will definitely do a lot more research.

I have said I will pay to file the divorce petition as it is me that has instigated it, but any other legals costs will be shared so at least am only looking at half of that £650.

PandoraMole · 26/10/2016 16:02

That is awesome.

My mum has just told me that as far as she's concerned I'm making the biggest mistake of my life and therefore she's washing her hands of me and I'm on my own.

6 months ago she was messaging me to tell me what an arsehole he was (her words), so that's interesting...