Ex Lives In Squalour With My Children

[MrMarkyMark]

This is the first time I've posted here but I have been dealing with this for a long time and need advice on what to do.
My ex was always messy. The entire time we were together I was the person who did all the cleaning and tidying. The details would make you sick but there is too much to go into now.
We split some time ago and my two kids live with her during the week and see me every second weekend (although they do come to me a couple of evenings during the week too).
However, since we sold the house and moved to separate places, her place is almost never in a fit state for human habitation. It's filthy, clothes all over the floor, bins overflowing, dog treats on the floor, week's worth of washing up piling up, and you are barely able to walk through the living room without stepping on something or tripping over something. The toilet is filthy, and there is mould in the bathroom. She never opens a window or the curtains.
She has been diagnosed with a couple of mental health conditions and I'm pretty certain she is autistic. For this reason, I have been hesitant to raise this subject as I know it will lead to a meltdown.
Despite all this, I know she loves the kids and her way of showing love is to plan as many fun days out as possible for them. The kids also love her.

I'm at the point, however, that I don't think I can let this continue. I need your advice for the next steps.

Social services need calling.
The kids should not live in that house.
She obviously needs some serious help.
You leaving them in that house isnt good at all.

I could. And often I do. But I also know that she would then go out with friends or watch a box set.

Thanks for this reply - I think you're right.

Thank you for this reply.

I struggle with housekeeping OP, Autistic/ADHD. Just to let you know what helps me is having my DH or a trusted friend tidy/clean with me. I dont know how you ex feels, but I know it is unacceptable to let the house get in an awful condition. Does she let any of her friends in the house? Also getting the kids to clean/tidy with you isn't a bad shout. My parents had a weekly cleaner growing up so I actually never learn how to clean or iron. It was just magically done by the time I returned from school. I am okish now, but rely on DH a lot for prompting, co working. Hope this helps, it must be hard, and it sounds like you are doing a good job.

Social services may help get support in place but their first suggestion to the Dad will always be to take on the care of DC. They aren't a babysitting service for absent fathers.

Nothing a weekly cleaner couldn't sort out.

Thanks. A lot to reply to here and I will do so in due course.

For what it’s worth you seem like a decent parent trying to do the right thing. My DD is a bit like your ex and priorities lie with getting out of the house and doing fun things. It’s not quite as bad with her but I think it verges on borderline bad hygiene. She’s always been like it and I think she has undiagnosed adhd to be honest.

She has had a cleaner at some points and we all try and help a bit, but you don’t want to push the boundaries too much and it’s like walking on egg shells. At some points the mess overwhelms her and she becomes depressed about it. Her car is also like a bin!

She is a loving mum but I do feel for her partner and kids. Weirdly she makes them tidy up toys etc. ( they are younger) before they leave my house so it’s really just her own place that suffers. I think it does make a difference to some kids friendships as they get older and compare their homes to others.

I wish you luck in finding a solution.

That's absolutely fine. The only way she will let that happen is if social services stipulate it.

Thank you. It has always been like walking on eggshells.

My ex's car is also like a bin. The ironic thing is she parks her car right next to the actual bin!

Or you could just have gone to court and got 50/50 (at least) when you split up or at any point in between... I don't understand why social services years down the line is your first port of call.
Really just sounds like you're hoping someone else will make her clean so you don't have to do more parenting.

Honestly, a cleaner wouldn't even know where to start. It would need to be reasonably tidy before the cleaner could clean. I know from experience that moving her mess to clean leads to a meltdown.

This.

I don’t think people understand the level of mess your ex has.

A cleaner a couple of times a week would not fix it and they’d probably refuse to do it.

My mum is exactly like your ex (undiagnosed). She obviously has something wrong with her but she’s also messy and lazy as she’ll just throw her rubbish on the floor or leave dirty dishes on the side until the stuff inside goes black (she’s also a hoarder so they don’t get thrown away either).

Posters saying she’s struggling with the kids etc but my mum is still like this even though now she lives alone and works less. So it’s not a time thing.

You having the kids more will not help her clean the house up.

But it will allow them to live a normal life for more of the week.

How far away do your kids live from your ex/your place of work?

You say you work a lot of hours but so do I and I study in the evenings and I’m a single parent and so it is possible.

Could they go to their mums after school for their tea and stuff and then you pick them up after work so they can spend the evening and sleep at yours?

Your work won’t be affected but they’ll have a more normal life and be able to do their school work and have a clean uniform etc.

Again. you just don't get it. You see the kids as having to fit in around your work and other responsibilities. When for women, particularly single parent women, this isn't an option.

I use ALL my leave to manage the kids. So does DH. I am currently in a tricky situation with a key client because I'm not able to deliver the work in the format I normally do due to having to accomodate summer holidays. This is a risk for me and it worries me, but I have children and this is just the way it goes.

The "load" is bollocks to do with who has more time. It's about whethe ror not you are actually taking on half. And you're not.

OP, I just want to give you a couple of examples of what women routinely have to accomodate with children that, much to my frustration, men too often just don't. And you certainly dont. This is from my life in the last 6 weeks or so, and it's a snapshot based on what I can think of. But I've included things DH has had to do too.

Dh works on a shift basis. I am self employed, work mostly (but not entirely) from home and am also the main breadwinner.

This week, DD has gone to holiday camp. Yay. except, it starts later than school and is further away. Dh normally does school runs on his way to work, but due to the above, he can't. So I have. This means I've been starting work late every day this week.

DS got braces a short while ago. The only appointment we could get before September, was on a day DH was working. So I had to take him. When, on day 2, one of the hook things came off, needless to say, the only appointment for fixing it was, shock/horror, on a da DH was working... so I had to take him (I also was the one who had to call the dentist, then let the school know he'd be absent during the day).

Next week, DH has had to take an extra day off at short notice as I have to go into the office to meet a client and we have no one to take DD.

I have planned a fun "activity" for DD and her friend for Monday. This activity has been planned to allow me to work from the cafe while they do their thing. Her friend's mum will be doing something similar in exchange the following week.

My computer crashed last week. By the time I got it working again, I had lost 3 hours of work. But could I catch up that evening? No, because I had to sort the DC's dinner, take DS to his activity, and spend time with DD. Instead I got up at the crack of dawn the next day and did a few hours before they woke up.

In the last week of school, I had to go and collect DD from school because they rang to tell me she was sick.

The week before that, I had to cut two days short to take her to music and ballet exams.

None of this is great fo rme from a work perspective. I'm scrambling to fit things in, working weekends and out of hours (and yes, MUST get off MN - but I've been up since 6 am and frankly, need the break!) to try work aroudn my kids. I don't have th eoption to say, "I do as much holiday time as I can."

I am glad you read this in the way it was meant.

I agree with the person upthread that pp saying "get a cleaner" clearly dont grasp the severity / atypical nature of the situation.

Like i said, it will be harder, parenting is hard.
It will mean some parts of your life have to change but this isnt something that is a "would be nice to have" for your kids, it's very basic needs. A safe, clean space to live and their own bed to sleep and suitable nuttition prepared in a clean kitchen is a non negotiable.

Letting them continue there is morally wrong IMO, it is the kind of thing that causes life long psychological damage. As hard as it is you need to upset the status quo.

in terms of positioning it to her - I'd center it on having a really honest conversation 1:1 prob in her home so she cant minimise (ensure kids are elsewhere) about what the kids need/ what's best for them,
And i'd sell it as "its not forever, its just for now", she can see them whenever she likes at your home etc etc
its okay, Everyone needs a break sometimes... things can get too much.
She can view it as "a bit of a break" and when she's had a rest and got on top of things you can review it together.

Back in reality she probably won't get on top of things but it will help her let the kids go more quietly and then they can start getting some much needed normality/ stability in their lives.

Your children are too important you cant let this continue because you dont want to upset her.

There do seem to be a lot of people who want to argue that I'm not pulling my weight. This really isn't the issue. I'll outline it as clearly as I can.

I work over 2000 hours a year. My ex works around 900.

I have the kids two whole days and at least five evenings every every two weeks. So effectively 50-50. I would be perfectly happy to have the kids more often, but they return to her place to sleep as my elder son then has a five minute walk to school and my younger son can only be picked up from one address by his taxi to be taken to his special school. This is an arrangement that works for everyone.

I use all my annual leave looking after the kids. My ex gets 13 weeks off each year and again, it was her choice to take a part time job so that she could spend more time with the kids.

What I do know from experience is that giving her more time without the kids will not mean she suddenly starts keeping her flat clean and tidy. It's simply not on her agenda, and likely never will be. If she has more time without the kids, the likely result will be that she spends more time visiting friends and family, and with her partner, or watching box sets, but I guarantee she won't be doing the dishes and wiping down the worktops.

The question, as I keep saying, is whether there is any compassionate way that I can raise this subject and get her the help she needs (she isn't going to do it on her own) or is my only choice to go through the painful experience of getting organisations involved who will make her see that this level of cleanliness is not acceptable for bringing up children?

The problem is tha tyou don't actually understand what 50:50 is.

But, you have said there is no way to raise this with your ex. A few peopl ehave offered suggestions for wording - I don't think you've even engaged with those posts so I don't know if they're not helpful for you or if you just haven' tbothered. A few others have said that you just have to accept that there is no gentle way to do this and you will have to accept the fall out.

And either way, what we're all telling you, is that if you reall ythink this is such an issue and your children are unsafe with her, then you are going to have to step up and do more. You are NOT doing 50:50 currently and if she is causing a dangerous living environment then you may need to do more than 50:50. That's just the way it is.

But you don't wnat that. I think you're hoping someone is going to come up with some miraculous way to get your ex to behave the way you want to so that you can feel lik eyou've done the right thing without actually having to put yourself out.

Your ex is your ex, her working hours are none of your business, she couldn't work more if she wanted as you are preventing her. You can do 50/50 and work full time, you just need to organise your own childcare. The issue is that you are neglecting your children by choosing to leave them in a filthy environment.

I agree with others that it's time to raise a safe guarding concern, you could do this through the school if you don't want to approach social services directly.

I don't know if they'd help but it might also be worth speaking to the NSPCC for advice.

Your children probably qualify as young carers, so you see what support their is locally. In my area there's a charity run young carers support service, my neighbours youngest uses it because her eldest has adhd and it's a strain on the younger sibling.

You could check in with you local voluntary services charity, ask at the council if they have one (thing every region does) who can signpost you to appropriate services. They're usually really well connected to what help is available in the local community.

It sounds like your children are also old enough that they will soon start making their own choices about where they spend their free time. You could let them know they're welcome to come round more often...Do they have their own keys to your house? Can they get there under their own steam if they chose to?

It's common for women to be misdiagnosed with BPD when in fact they're autistic. From what you've said, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case with your ex.

She needs support as well as your children. I'm not suggesting it's for you to give it, just noting that she needs it.

You sound like a good father, and I feel for both your children and your ex. There aren't bad people in this situation, just struggling people.

Raise a safe guarding issue, see what support is available in the community for your children (which may open up avenues of support for your ex) and help support your children with more agency to spend more time at yours when they wish it (all you're doing is opening the door, you're not interfering in the custody agreement).

You cannot make your ex clean OP, nor can social services. So if the house isn't safe you must remove your children from it as much as possible. You're just repeating the same excuses for not stepping up. Being a parent, a single one especially, is all about compromise and balance. If your kids need your time, your career and mortgage have to take a back seat. Single mums do it all the time, your ex has done it. If you won't do it then you are worse than their mum because you are leaving them in a dirty house and doing less than half the parenting (and no, you are not currently doing anywhere near half before you say that again).

For complete unambiguous clarity - there is no nice way.
There is no magic phrase that will mean she smile sweetly say okay sure thing! and getsout the dettol a mop and some bin bags...

Shes mentally unwell and not meeting the childrens needs. That's unlikely to change.
Even it if the home is reinstated to a habitable condition (which isnt SS's job) it will likely revert to its current state again. This should not be the children's primary home.

You can keep restating and explaining your hours and access, i get it but it changes nothing. Currently, their primary home where they are sleeping and living is not suitable and the conditions arent acceptable.

If your Ex wont provide basic security and stability for your children - which she wont you need you need to, even if that means things get harder for you. You are failing your children if you dont.

Things will likely need to change and you need to look for solutions and probably be creative

Example:

• You may need to look at paid childcare support so find a CMs do to pick up or breakfast drop offs some days
• maybe your ex could pick them up and give them tea at your house while you finish work
• you might need to ask for flexible working
• You might need to reduce hours
• Extend mortgage to reduce payments
• you may need to reduce pension contributions or savings for a while
• You may need to skip holidays for a couple of years

This is being a parent

I just wanted to share some things on this thread.

My house was a massive shithole for some time I wasn't coping with it at all it was awful. I had lots of support from mumsnet and set myself challenges to get it done . There were lots of reasons it got in the state it was but that to long to explain. I would have set backs to . But I got there I still struggle but not like i used to .

Whilst I was in a relationship with my now ex . He was working full time. I was working part time term time only. I was pregnant and had other children. He thought and still thinks because I only worked part time that means I do everything regarding kids and house/meals. And waking at night for the baby. A couple times I said something. The reply "I have work in the morning" after work he would just sit in the chair . He's done his days work... he never ever understood my day never ended. I will never forget when I fell asleep up the top of the stairs/landing because I was so drained. Every now and then he would help me blitz and I was grateful for that. But it wouldn't last long because I was so tired.

Once my baby was born I gave up work and me and him separated. I felt a massive weight lift but time heals and all that. So we tired again a few times but it would be the same as I explained above .I felt like I was looking after another child but it was much harder than a child.

Now we have split for good. He has the kids every other weekend. And if its a bank holiday he may have them an extra day. He will have them. This summer hes having them 2 extra nights instead of 2 hes having them for 4 nights.

Oh let's add that when we were in the on off relationship phases when the kids were babys /little he said he would not have them over night. Not whilst they are little. So he would pop round fir a few hours to see them. So he basically waited till they were not babys /toddlers anymore.

The kids are a bit older now 9 and 10 . Hes now Disney dad living with his mum.. hr does nothing everything is done for him. Doesn't even scrape hus food plate. But because he works full time he thinks that's it hes done all he can . Hes done his bit.

The biggest this for me was when ever I asked for help the answer was " i work you don't" he necer evet got it. My day didn't end his did.

Maybe its similar for your ex you keep saying I work 50hrs she only works 25hrs but your failing to see her day doesnt end. On top of that she's coping with special needs and her own difficulties.

Believe me its hard it really is.