Ex Lives In Squalour With My Children

[MrMarkyMark]

This is the first time I've posted here but I have been dealing with this for a long time and need advice on what to do.
My ex was always messy. The entire time we were together I was the person who did all the cleaning and tidying. The details would make you sick but there is too much to go into now.
We split some time ago and my two kids live with her during the week and see me every second weekend (although they do come to me a couple of evenings during the week too).
However, since we sold the house and moved to separate places, her place is almost never in a fit state for human habitation. It's filthy, clothes all over the floor, bins overflowing, dog treats on the floor, week's worth of washing up piling up, and you are barely able to walk through the living room without stepping on something or tripping over something. The toilet is filthy, and there is mould in the bathroom. She never opens a window or the curtains.
She has been diagnosed with a couple of mental health conditions and I'm pretty certain she is autistic. For this reason, I have been hesitant to raise this subject as I know it will lead to a meltdown.
Despite all this, I know she loves the kids and her way of showing love is to plan as many fun days out as possible for them. The kids also love her.

I'm at the point, however, that I don't think I can let this continue. I need your advice for the next steps.

If you'd ever been in a house like that you would see that kids who are used to it wouldn't know where to start

Especially the one with autism.

It's not their job to make their home habitable - it's the job of the parent and she's not doing it

Your kids are old enough to have an opinion. What do they think?
Perhaps if you saw them more you could teach them to clean and tidy their own spaces for a start? But I'm not sure how much impact you can have every other weekend...
If you knew she was mentally unstable and couldn't keep a clean house you shouldn't have left the kids with her in the first place. But you did, because it's easier for you.

if it's not a good environment for them, who cares if she has a meltdown? You have to protect the children.

Surely they're old enough that you don't have to be there in the morning to get them out th edoor. Or, you coudl do what many women have to do and take a small step back at work to facilitate more time with your children to be there to support them in the morning.

The reality is that while you want the best for your kids, I can see that, you also don't want to do anything that might make your life a bit harder. which is not an option most women have.

Hi, I appreciate what you're trying to say but I feel I need to clarify things.

The kids have absolutely no chance of keeping my ex's place tidy. She throws dog treats on the floor deliberately and they get trodden on and crushed. She piles up tea bags on the coffee table, leaves food around the place for flies to lay eggs in. This is her, not them. It's not their job to be her housekeeper, and while she is setting no example they won't spend their time picking up after her. It's not their responsibility. Furthermore, the younger autistic kid, while highly intelligent, is not emotionally mature enough to be expected to assist with household tasks.

As I've said, I am in the office 50 hours a week, 46 weeks a year. That's over 2000 hours. She works 25 hours a week term time only. That's less than 1000 hours. Despite this, I still have them every second weekend (including Friday evenings), two evenings a week (they go back to her place to sleep as it's easier for getting to school), two weeks in the summer, and a week at Christmas. I also make a significant financial contribution that leaves me with less disposable income than her. I really do pull my weight in this co-parenting situation, and I also know that any suggestion that I take the kids more often will not go down well with her. She seriously doesn't see the mess and dirt as a problem at all so doesn't believe she needs any additional help.

I really do pull my weight in this co-parenting situation, and I also know that any suggestion that I take the kids more often will not go down well with her.

I'm sure that's true. But the reality is that many many coparents have to do MORE than their fair share. Usually women. Because the other parent isn't competent or willing or capable. Of all the separated families I know, only ONE has a dad who genuinely does 50/50. Every single other family it is the woman who is taking on the bulk of the childcare and the parenting, and the man who is just doing whatever he thinks he can/wants to.

If you had the kids more, you wouldn' thave to pay as much in CMS so that might help you out with the extra costs of having them more.

Why is it that you couldn't possibly get a different job, or pay for childcare/cleaning etc to help you juggle? Women do it. Your ex is trying to do it. You could do it if you really wanted to.

At 15 and 13 your kids are old enough to help out with this, which would be good for them so they understand it isn’t how most people live. My brother had 4 teens at home and they had a rota - one would empty dishwasher one day, one would feed the cat and so on, they would each change their bed linen etc. The household had two working parents and money was tight (not enough for a cleaner). Might your ex be in agreement that you could base some of their pocket money/allowance on them helping keep things nice at her home (even just their rooms/change their beds) or something like that @MrMarkyMark

So you're refusing to do 50-50 care of your children as it's too 'difficult' for you, you refuse to change your work in order to facilitate half of the school runs or fully share the holiday cover - taking them for three weeks out of 13 weeks is woefully inadequate. This restricts her to part-time, term time only hours - massively limiting the effect on her career progression. You leave her to do the vast majority of the childcare, including additional needs support whilst also holding down a job, and when she prioritises their needs over housework, spending her time with them planning, organising and taking them on enriching days out, which is far more exhausting for her than sticking them on screens and sorting laundry, you see fit to criticise her parenting? From what you have posted she manages to make sure they always have clean clothes, are fed, are in school and most importantly are happy. And yet you still feel the need to criticise? Until you are pulling out all the stops and parenting 50-50 and not using 'my career won't let me' as an excuse not to pull your weight, you don't have the right to criticise her parenting choices, if you were doing your fair share, she would have more time to improve her life. She is probably exhausted spinning several plates, so no wonder she gets defensive about it when you leave her to do the majority and then tell her she's doing it wrong! Take your children more and teach them how to clean and tidy, children of that age should be capable of cleaning up after themselves, not leaving it all up to her to do. If their additional needs make it hard to learn this then she'll be even more exhausted doing more than most parents trying to keep on top of it all - even the most capable of children can turn a tidy home into chaos in 5 seconds flat. Do your fair share of parenting and see how she copes then. It's a pretty safe bet it will improve things significantly.

Untidiness is one thing, dirtiness another. You could organise a cleaner for her on a regular basis. If you get on, you could offer to come round once every couple of weeks and help her sort it together. She is probably overwhelmed and can't do it on her own. The children could help with the washing up etc. Perhaps for extra pocket money.

It's really not that simple. The older child is able to get himself to school. The younger one is autistic and either isn't able to or chooses not to engage in getting ready without significant help.
This isn't about whether or not I'm willing to take the kids more often (I definitely am), it's about how I raise the subject of either getting assistance for my ex to help her keep her place cleaner and tidier, OR, have the kids more often. Obviously, were I to have the kids more often (full time?) then financially this would also have a huge impact on my ex as she would lose the financial assistance I provide her, along with my younger son's Disability Living Allowance, and Family Allowance.

Ignore most of the replies on here OP. If you were the woman complaining about her husband in the same scenario the replies would be very different. However, this is MN, where women can do no wrong and everything is the fault of a man.

I really do pull my weight in this co-parenting situation

The bar is so low for men. You are not pulling your weight far enough to cross the line. You are actually better than some, but you are still very short of what is required for your kids wellbeing.

A woman letting her kids live in such conditions with a ND dad who can't look properly after them and is mentally unstable because of "her work" would be absolutely torched and shamed. So should you.

Look, I completely get it. YOu want to do this in a way that causes the least disruption. But by the sounds of it, your ex' MH problems are siginficant enough that this isn't possible. So you're probably going to have to deal with the fall out. Sure, try talking to her first. Being calm and rational and explaining your concerns and the options you think could work.

But it sounds like you're not optimistic that will work. So nothing we advise is goign to miraculously help your ex to not over react. In which case you have to be prepared for the bigger fight. Realistically, if it gets to the point where you're going via SS/Cafcass, Mediation or Court, it's very unlikely that the agreed solution is you sending a cleaner in. So you need to be prepared fo rthe fact that you are going to have to choose whether to allow them to continue living like this for fight to have them live with you, with all the inconvenience that brings.

YOU have to change for YOUR kids if YOU care. Assuming your assessment of your kids' ability to cope with the situation in the first paragraph is correct. Your second is honestly full of lame excuses. You know your kids are not being properly cared for by their mum. If the way their mum lives is truly like you say, I would imagine any court would agree it's not the right environment for the kids, so you fight to take them more. All your excuses are basically rubbish - if you care about your kids you NEED to get them out of there, so tell the courts what's happening, find a job that lets you have your kids more, and stop kidding yourself that you "pull your weight in this co-parenting situation".

100% not true. I've been on endless threads where women are concerned about the conditions their children have to live in while at their dad's and the women is told, repeatedly, that she needs to protect her children and get them away from that situation and if that means refusing access then that's what needs to be done. And ironically, these are usually women who actually have the children most of the time.

This man has his children only part time becuase "work" and yet has huge issues with his ex. She sounds awful to me, so it's incomprehensible to me that he hasn't put more effort into getting his children out of that environment.

I would say I see my kids a lot. It's basically 50-50

my two kids live with her during the week and see me every second weekend

Which is true? The few hours of evening visits don't make it 50/50?
Your ex's benefits/meltdowns etc are not your concern. Offer your kids to come and live with you. Insist.

This.

You're a parent. You don't get to opt out of difficult conversations

You need to report to social services. They can then organise proper support.

Slightly different perspective. Are you kids bothered by this squalor?

I would hate it. My DD wouldn't care.

Hmmmm. What an odd time to post this? They are teenagers, but you’ve waited out the baby/toddler phase to raise this as an issue? I’d have been far more worried when kids were smaller, sterilising baby stuff etc, seems a valid worry - so what has led to your seemingly recent concerns (if this has been going on for years)? Teenagers are capable young adults, could they be encouraged to clean? I had household chores at those ages. Also would have thought teenagers were less interested in ‘fun days out’.

As a person who works between 40 and at worst, 80 hours a week, but STILL parents, you are using your working hours as an excuse. The oldest is 15. Old enough to get her/himself to school. The 13 year old is slightly more problematic but if your ex died, you'd have to sort it out.

Your ex is autistic, has BPD & ADHD and although the house is a health hazard, is an otherwise good mother. If she can do it, you should be able to do more.

If you're just going to keep reiterating that you already do your share, there is no point posting here.

Hi, I appreciate what you're trying to say but I feel I need to clarify things.

The kids have absolutely no chance of keeping my ex's place tidy. She throws dog treats on the floor deliberately and they get trodden on and crushed. She piles up tea bags on the coffee table, leaves food around the place for flies to lay eggs in. This is her, not them. It's not their job to be her housekeeper, and while she is setting no example they won't spend their time picking up after her. It's not their responsibility. Furthermore, the younger autistic kid, while highly intelligent, is not emotionally mature enough to be expected to assist with household tasks.

As I've said, I am in the office 50 hours a week, 46 weeks a year. That's over 2000 hours. She works 25 hours a week term time only. That's less than 1000 hours. Despite this, I still have them every second weekend (including Friday evenings), two evenings a week (they go back to her place to sleep as it's easier for getting to school), two weeks in the summer, and a week at Christmas. I also make a significant financial contribution that leaves me with less disposable income than her. I really do pull my weight in this co-parenting situation, and I also know that any suggestion that I take the kids more often will not go down well with her. She seriously doesn't see the mess and dirt as a problem at all so doesn't believe she needs any additional help.

I also did all the cleaning when we were together. This is definitely a 50-50 arrangement. I even regularly look after the kids so that she can see friends or go to see bands etc.

Career progression. She isn't interested in career progression. From the moment the kids were born she wanted to be a stay-at-home mum. The decision to work part time was hers because she soon realised she was "bored" at home.

I do not leave her to do the vast majority of the childcare to her. I am heavily involved.

My children know the rules are different in my place. They always take their shoes off at the door, hang their coats and bags up, put things in the bin, put their dirty dishes in the bowl etc. They help with the recycling. At her place there is no example being set and there is no point them tidying up their own things when she makes no effort to tidy up herself. The mess isn't the fault of the kids.

When we were together it was almost impossible to keep the place tidy. I got pushed into the door of the fridge freezer once because I moved some Amazon parcels off the hob in order to cook something.

As for things improving if I pull my weight, she was this messy when she lived alone, this messy before kids, and will be this messy after they've gone. The difference now is that I'm not around to pick up after her.

We split up in 2021 and still lived in the same house until late 2022. I kept on top of things until that point. So previously it wasn't such an issue.

Fun days out are more for mum than the kids at this stage.

I think you just have to phrase it in a way that appeals and also work on getting the kids on board - do they want to be at yours more ??

Approach with work and see if they are flexible to starting later on some days to allow you to do drop off and you just catch up in the evening or shuffle meetings around. There is always a way
You don't need to have them full time just more often? You'll pay less child maintenance because of this too.

I understand you don't want your sons cleaning up after her but you're doing them a disservice by not showing them how to clean at your house at least - they're growing into men and need independence skills. Your younger son has sen and I sympathise, how about facilitating him into sen youth clubs? I worked for a charity with SEN youth and it was structured sessions on managing money, being aware of mate crime, travelling independently etc

Perhaps if you can't provide a safer space because of your working hours then you could provide these types of experiences or holidays and some one on one healthy male role model time. Scouts, sea cadets, anything that gets them working as a team and aware of other environments

Sbe is clearly struggling and she is their mum, and like you said, you do get along well enough.
In this instance support is probably needed. Take the kids more days. Offer to pay for a full clean and regular cleaner.
You can hire someone who specifically does tidying and organising, they are called Declutterers and will come and do a reorganisation.
How old are the kids, can they start to help out around the house? Each have a chore they do, even for a bit of pocket money.
Maybe a sensible conversation about where the kids live mostly could be something.
I would try all avenues before a court battle for custody.