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the end of sex

265 replies

tdotb · 10/12/2007 16:13

Assuming I'm not the only man - because reading the girls posts, there are lots of couples who have ended up like this - who thinks this is an "issues" - how many of you have found that there is little, or no physical intimacy in your relationship since your children were born?

It's been nearly 8 years now, our youngest is just over 7 - and we don't talk about it, it just starts a row, and i try tot to mind, but actually, I do mind - and then I feel shitty for minding.

If this is you as well, how do you cope? Do you need to cope - is it me who has something wrong with him?

OP posts:
namechangealso · 16/02/2008 20:57

Hello tdotb... this has taken me a lot of courage to post because I am the female version of you and I have learned where I have gone wrong.

I have enabled my husband to be without intimacy in all its forms. And I feel you are enabling your DW to be like this and it is not right and it is not good. My story is far too long to go into here, but my one bit of advice (and I am a lot longer down the road than you and it is/and has caused me the most enormous heartache) is to take the bull by the horns and tackle the problem. I wish I had.

Please do not accept this as the norm. This is not the norm. You obviously think the world of your wife but you cannot live your live and not be cherished and that love not to be shown. You might brush it under the carpet now but it WILL come back with a vengeance in the worse way possible and will be far harder to tackle in years to come.

You sound such a lovely guy and you deserve more.

tdotb · 17/02/2008 23:19

I don't know what to say. I just nearly posted 1000 or so words, but they were all wrong.

OP posts:
LieselVonTrapp · 18/02/2008 16:11

Youre a top bloke and Im thinking of you

tdotb · 23/02/2008 23:43

If I was a top bloke i wouldn't be quite so alone, but thank you.

OP posts:
Go · 24/02/2008 00:04

I've read most, not all of this thread and it seems to me that your wife is probably quite a strong character, and probably quite manipulative too. You love her, bring her flowers on a weekly basis, I imagine you spend time with the children and are a really good dad. And she takes advantage of your good and caring nature. Can't be bothered to sleep with you, simply because she doesn't want to, and it's another way of keeping you in your place; slightly paranoid and a bit hurt. She doesn't want to discuss it because she knows she has no defence. If I were you I'd take a strong and positive stance. Don't let her get away with it. Be strong, and put your foot down - tell her what it is you want, and don't take no for an answer. And I don't mean force yourself on her, but make her realise you're not prepared to be a doormat. You sound lovely, but a bit soft, and some women respect a bit of a show of strength sometimes, particuarly if they have to the "srong one" on a daily basis, looking after kids. Don't know quite how you could go about it, but think it's probably a way forward. I didn't sleep with my ex husband for a couple of years - things were wrong and all I did was boss him around, because I resented the fact that he was so spineless. I often think our marriage would have survived had he been a bit less passive. Not saying this WILL work for you, but maybe is worth a try. Best of luck x

colacubes · 24/02/2008 13:58

tdobh, well nothing has changed then, have you spoken to your wife lately about your situation?

tdotb · 24/02/2008 22:26

You may be right Go, you make some points that have hit me before, but then I think that I am the same person I was last week or last year, or 10 years ago - older, maybe a little better informed, but just as quiet or otherwise, I haven't had a great big personality change, as far as I am aware. I suppose it is like your own children, you don't notice little changes day by day, but your parents can say "hasn't she grown" because it's more obvious to them, so I might be wrong.

I'm not going to test that theory by suddenly getting bolshy and demanding, and so no cola, we haven't spoken about it. I am relly scared that this is the rest of our lives. I feel really lonely.

OP posts:
CarGirl · 24/02/2008 22:30

Perhaps you need to start telling her everyday that you are lonely just in a matter of fact way, it may then seep through to her that you are a person with feelings?

keepcalmandcarryon · 24/02/2008 23:03

tdotb - agree with many of the previously made points about trying to have intimacy without full blown sex (there was a thread I think on MN a little while ago about THE HAND... ie the male hand reaching across the darkened bedroom, looking for a little affection, when the poor woman on the other side of the bed has toppled into bed exhausted from breastfeeding/work/cleaning baked beans off the kitchen ceiling)

and also agree that some couples can be happy in a sex-free relationship

however you sound so unhappy, and so lonely, and are clearly unable to talk to your wife in any way about it.

How do you resolve problems in other areas of your relationship where you disagree? Are there any other such areas? eg (picking from the air at random) where you go on holiday, how much TV the kids should watch, what you spend your money on.

Could you think about how you resolve, or fail to resolve those problems, and then extend that to the problem in your post?

With best wishes and hope you find a way forward.

colacubes · 25/02/2008 07:23

Oh dear, I think cargirl had a good idea, try telling her I'm feeling lonely today or I'm hurting can I have a cuddle, if she can resist that then I'm not sure she has any clue about how she is hurting you. And Go made some very real comments there, she was very honest, you could do worse than follow her advice.

But please if you listen to nothing else please know that you deserve to be loved and held, and to hear how lonely you are and the length of time this has gone on really is upsetting to us all, just sat here listening is quite heart wrenching so the pain you must feel is beyond belief.

If you don't act, nothing will change, you have the opportunity to change your life, you can make a difference to your life and your dw's, don't waste any more time on heartache start to fix your own and you may fix hers as well.

donna123 · 27/02/2008 10:48

I have only just discovered this thread. It has made me quite sad.

Dot, you sound like a nice person, perhaps too nice for your own good. I?m not going to suggest that you do all sorts of assertive things because that would be hypocritical of me because I am not assertive either. However, I would suggest:
-you say that you are not ?a catch? ? well make yourself one!! Get fit, get a haircut, get new clothes, get an independent social life. You will either find a nice woman, find men-friends who can provide some of the emotional-intimacy that your wife doesn?t give or (possibly, possibly) scare your wife into thinking that you are leaving and she may wake up and smell the coffee.

  • I have a horrible feeling that your wife is using you. She consented to sex when she wanted babies but doesn?t want you anymore now that you have fulfilled your procreational purposes. She is putting up with you at the moment while the children are young but I wouldn?t be surprised if she dumps you as soon as they fly the nest.

I?m sure that the idea of being ?out there? again scares you rigid but at least you can have a go at it under your own control and timetable. So much better to try now; don?t wait until you are a few years? older and feeling doubly-depressed and unattractive because she had dumped you.
Look at it this way: if you do try now and it doesn?t work then you are no worse off than your current situation.

tdotb · 27/02/2008 18:53

Thanks all - again -

Maybe i didn't do it very well, but I tried to explain last night a little of how I felt, as we were in the pub, and I thought she heard me, but she did not say a word.

Donna - I don't want anyone else, thank you for the ideas, the thoughts, but it's her i have lost.

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 27/02/2008 18:58

As Go said sexless marriage are not the norm, what what you're entitled to expect and any loving partner ought to get their own problems sorted out or resume some kind of intimacy.

(Read this from today's Times although it shows how some people just look for sex with others right through a marriage so certainly not the best way to deal with things)

"My vamp has vanished
A reader is upset that what began as a sex-fuelled affair has become a humdrum marriage
A couple sleeping on opposite sides of a heart shaped bed

Sometimes I think I have no right to feel hard-done-by, but mostly I feel angry. My first wife, Susan, and I met at university and had a great connection: same sense of humour, same interests, even the same profession. We're accountants, which doesn't sound exciting, but I'm in corporate venture transactions, and the financial rewards are thrilling. Susan is a partner in a large firm. We had a lovely home and great social life and everything jogged along quite easily.

I'd never been faithful to Susan. Soon after we met I had a fling with a girl I met in a bar and realised that if I was discreet, no one need ever know what I was doing. That pattern continued, made easier by my job taking me away a lot. When we were in our late thirties Susan brought up the subject of children and we decided we were ready for parenthood. Four weeks later she was pregnant and we were delighted, though I barely had time to celebrate before heading to Spain, ostensibly for a work weekend but in reality to enjoy golf and serious luxury at a top hotel. A colleague introduced me to a high-flyer who was joining our division the next week and I was instantly attracted to her. Julie was 28 and stunning, but my professional reputation was important to me so I made a big effort not to flirt and we had a platonic start to our relationship. That weekend was spent discussing her role in the bank.

Two weeks later Julie and I began an affair. It started after working late one night. We were trying to grab taxis in the rain and were under her umbrella. I kissed her. She pulled me into an alleyway, and we had sex against the grimy bricks. In the taxi later, we frantically sorted our clothes and parted at the station, where I tried to smarten myself up before getting the train home.

Susan was in bed and I sat up for hours. I knew that this was more than an ordinary affair and if Susan hadn't been pregnant, I'd have left then. Instead, that was the beginning of three years of ecstasy and agony, to coin a cliché. Julie and I were totally professional in front of colleagues, but took risks in ways that I still can't believe. She would make an appointment with me via my secretary, come in with files, lock the door and take her skirt off to reveal stockings and suspenders. We often ate in a restaurant downstairs from our office that many of our colleagues also used, but I doubt they also had regular sex in the alleyway behind the restaurant. I lived in fear of getting caught as I would have been instantly sacked, but nothing could have stopped me.

One day at work there was much talk about what had caused the scrapes across the conference table. We joined in, well aware that Julie's stilettos had done the damage the previous night. The riskiest time was at a conference: I went into a stationery cupboard and Julie followed me and, despite knowing that if anyone opened the door we'd be seen by 200 people, we had sex.

But it wasn't just about sex. Julie was good at her job, fascinating to talk to and great fun, and always ready to stand her ground. I finally told her about Susan's pregnancy three months before the baby was born. She was furious, not just about the baby, but because I had lied to her. She even punched me, but I almost enjoyed it, so besotted was I.

When Richard was born I was in turmoil. Julie was hurt by my instant love for him and Susan was starting to question the distance between us. I felt torn. Life was a constant juggle between Richard, working and seeing Julie until, two years on, she said that since I couldn't make a choice, she would: she was applying for a transfer. I couldn't bear to lose her so I promised to leave Susan. The next few months were hell, as I told Susan, bought a flat and organised seeing Richard as much as possible. Susan simply couldn't believe it and though I said I'd only recently got together with Julie, she didn't believe me, finally asking if we'd begun our affair while she was pregnant. I denied it, but I don't think she believed or forgave me. The next five years were punctuated by broken arrangements and rows about access. Julie moved within the bank, so we were not in the same department before we went public with our relationship, which caused little comment.

I was surprised when Julie said she wanted to get married - she'd always said marriage and children weren't on her agenda. I wasn't keen but eventually agreed, though the next year I was taken aback when she said she wanted a baby. I was adamant that a baby wasn't part of our agreement but the arguments raged for months - alongside our sex life - until she said she would leave me and have a child with someone else. So I agreed, and Alice was born six years ago. I love her as much as Richard and the two of them adore each other, while Susan seems to feel less angry.

But Julie has time and energy for everything else apart from us; our sex life is a desultory once or twice a week - in bed with the lights out. We still enjoy the children, work for the same bank, meet for lunch and have lovely holidays. But I look at this beautiful, passionate woman who has caused me as much pain as pleasure and I don't know her. Life isn't all about sex, but it was a big thing for us for so long and now she just shrugs and says ?Oh, I know it's me. I should give you more attention?, so I feel pathetic, begging for attention. I feel so short changed and full of fury that at times I hate Julie, but can't bring myself to admit it or do anything about it. I'm back where I started, in a mediocre marriage. " "

tdotb · 27/02/2008 19:16

I'm not brimming with sympathy

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 27/02/2008 19:43

He sounds a bit self centred and he's getting sex twice a week and still complaining about it.

Triathlete · 27/02/2008 20:50

the relevance of that article to tdotb's position isn't clear to me.

Dot, someone once said to me "if you don't make your own decisions, someone else will make them for you."

I hope you can find the strength to make some positive decisions for yourself.

trulymadlydeeply · 27/02/2008 20:53

tdotb, have you thought about writing a letter to your wife? You've taken the brave step of broaching the subject in the pub. If she has a letter, maybe she'd reflect further and at her leisure and take the opportuntity to really THINK about what you've said.

So sorry you're so sad. You don't deserve to be ...

Triathlete · 27/02/2008 21:03

TMD he has written letters, as he says earlier in the thread.

DaDaDa · 27/02/2008 23:45

"Our sex life is a desultory once or twice a week"

Poor fella. Quick someone, start the violins.

Sorry tdotb. I can see no solution to your problem unless you (apologies in advance for psychobabble) start to value yourself more and truly grasp how unreasonable your wife is being. Not for refusing to have sex with you, but for refusing to listen to you and understand your need for affection.

"Get fit, get a haircut, get new clothes, get an independent social life"

This, I think, is good advice.

colacubes · 28/02/2008 18:58

tdotb, have been thinking and I agree with donna, be more independent socially, take time to get ready, its not that she may want to jump ya bones cause your bum looks rather nice in those jeans (although I am sure it is a jolly nice bum!!), it will make her question her decision to withdraw her affections, because confidence in a man is a turn on, and if you're confident other women will notice and she knows it. Us women can be ficile creatures, and very territorial, it may seem like a cheap shot but it will rattle her comfort zone.

And if you're not ready for outright confrontation, let her come to you with the questions, ie where you going, new jeans, whos she never heard of her? etc She might even surprise herself.

Hanonymouse · 28/02/2008 19:25

I've been the wife in this situation, although it didn't last 7 years. We had no physical intimacy whatsoever for two years and that includes pecks on the cheek, hand holding, sitting beside each other. I am a fairly driven (bossy) self-contained person. He is a laid-back, very caring but not very talky-talky bloke. I admit I didn't much care. I had taken to sleeping in with the kids whenever possible. Didn't feel he would ever leave (didn't want him to either).
This situation ended with a massive outpouring from him about how he felt. It really shocked me and took me by surprise and I was forced to acknowledge the importance he placed on this. It simply began as I was making a cup of tea once the dds were in bed and he simply began with "This is really becoming a problem". There was some shouting on both sides. But I couldn't brush it under the carpet.
You have to get your wife into a situation where she has to listen to you. Even an agreement to give each other a kiss when you part would be an improvement.
Please try this before separating, which you obviously don't want to do.

Expelliarmum · 01/03/2008 16:03

tdotb, My mum once said to me "everyone needs to be hugged at least once a day, otherwise they don't grow" I don't know if virtual hugs work, but you can have one from me.
Please don't lose yourself under all this unhappiness. you are too valuable.

tdotb · 06/03/2008 19:36

Right, I have decided I'm going to try to kiss her good bye when I go to work tomorrow morning. Wish me luck.

OP posts:
PeatBog · 06/03/2008 19:42

Lots and lots of luck, tdotb. I'm almost in tears from this thread.

Desiderata · 06/03/2008 20:09

Does your wife post on MN, tdotb?

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