the end of sex

[tdotb]

Assuming I'm not the only man - because reading the girls posts, there are lots of couples who have ended up like this - who thinks this is an "issues" - how many of you have found that there is little, or no physical intimacy in your relationship since your children were born?

It's been nearly 8 years now, our youngest is just over 7 - and we don't talk about it, it just starts a row, and i try tot to mind, but actually, I do mind - and then I feel shitty for minding.

If this is you as well, how do you cope? Do you need to cope - is it me who has something wrong with him?

what did the letter say?

It feels really strange talking about this. I rather wish I had not started.

This is not about "sex" or a "sex life", it is about how this all makes me feel. I am sorry if I am seen as some sort of nasty smutty little man.

The letter said simply "I love you", although I say that in other ways already, so I do not think that could have been a shock. I tried to express how I feel, and my fears for the future of our marriage, and I said that maybe we could talk about just being closer sometimes. I explained that I understood that she does not want to sleep in the same bed as me, but I would like to know why.

Her reaction was first to be upset, then angry, but not I did not get any answers.

"What is in it for me" is the time we spend together - we get on really well, we do not fight or anything, we share lots of interests, and spend a lot of time together doing things, sometimes with the kids, and occasionally not. Maybe I should just be happy with that.

I will not post again about this, it does not feel right.

sorry you've felt exposed or intruded on.

and hope that it gets better for you both. You never know about the letter - reactions are like onions in that they have many layers, it may be that later on she can get something else from your letter that can be more helpful for you both.

Anyway. all the best.

I can understand that, it's very personal and only you can decide what you want from a relationship and what compromises you are happy to make. You sound caring and sensitive not in the slightest smutty btw

tdotb, you did not in the slightest come over as being smutty. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make love to your own wife! And if she doesn't want that, it is perfectly normal to feel rejected and that there is something missing.
If you came on wanting to know whether this is normal/reasonable/expected behaviour on the part of your dw, I think the overwhelming majority would agree that it isn't and that you do have the right to know why. I really can't understand why she should have gotten angry at the content of your letter but it does sound as if she/both of you need some help in this.
Sorry you feel you can't post again.

tdotb, would your dw come on here and talk to us? I think you are genuine and hurt (and walking in my dh's footsteps) but maybe we could tell her how we feel too. She's not freaky or unusual and ther has to be some underlying reason for her felings. Maybe we could help (and how did YOU find out about Mumsnet, we can help, let us..).

tdotb, she is most probably lost herself, kids work home, somewhere she forgot that she is a woman, who has a man who loves her, and fancies the arse of her (as my DP says)i forget I'm just me sometimes, and by the sounds of it she's forgot that it was just the 2 of you in the first place. Its been a long time, but dont do anything silly like going elsewhere, you obviously have a great love, you just need to remind her.

tbh, I'd say if she got that angry over a letter, she'd be absolutely furious to think he'd been discussing it online with a bunch of strangers, however nice we are!

She's very lucky to have you.
Don't give up, you'll get through to her eventually.

This is a classic game of "Frigid Wife" as described by Eric Berne in The Games People Play. The wife gets some sort of payoff from withholding sex from her husband, and from the periodic games of "Uproar" that develop when he attempts to initiate sex or to discuss the matter. The wife will periodically provoke the husband by naked displays or fake intimacy, only to reject him again.

Archetypes in literature are the little girl in Great Expectations who asks the boy to make her a mud pie, and then rejects him because he is dirty.

It's a dangerous game, and typical responses will end up in divorce or criminal courts.

The husband's only reasonable response is to go into counselling or psychotherapy to understand why he chose such a partner in the first place. This also often leads to divorce, from an informed point of view.

The only consolation for the husband is that the reasons for the game are unlikely to be his fault.

it's an interesting idea tri, I'll look in to it, see if I can get the book, but it feels more fundamental than that - I think now iIrecognise that the solution i want is not to be upset about it anymore

Glad you're back, tdotb. I've been thinking about you a lot, and really respect your sense of loyalty in the face of a very difficult situation.

I really do hope that you manage to resolve it satisfactorily. Good luck.

xxx

I'm not sure it's possible to simply stop a desire or need. You can push it way down , but underneath it will continue to niggle, like a dull ache that never goes away. There will be an emptiness.
You dw sounds as if she doesn't actually 'fancy' you any more

no, I do not think that she does, and I do wonder if she ever did.

i dont think theres anything anyone can add or advise that you havent already tried, but youre a champ for sticking this out.

oh crap i hope ive not killed this thread. please come back nice man

LOL at "nice man" - sorry, I came back because I was having a difficult day - it is a very strange feeling to have, and there is not anyone to talk to about it, because of course she would be the person I would want to turn to.

Thanks Liesel

Tdotb...but howhasshe managed to just refuse to even talk about it? i know you said the letter was a bad move, but did she actually say anything?

I had a friend who was in exactly your situation a few years back. He had been with his partner for 12 years and they seemed so happy (doing things together etc) but it was a sexless relationship. He tried not to mind as she was (still his now) his best friend. She pretty much behaved like your wife and refused to address the problem.
One day this girl comes along, and she's very confident and easy with sex (don;t mean it in a bad way - just the opposite of his wife) and she fancies him. He obviously fell for the sexual bit but being a nice man and all thinks he's fallen in love so leaves the partner BEFORE anything happens with the girl. nothing happens with the girl as he was not confident enough for her (sexless relationship do this often). he doesn't go back with partner however as he's realised that sex is important in a relationship and meant something else was lacking. partner is devastated but starts going out and very soon enough finds a guy with whom she is able to let herself down and she cannot believe sex can be this amazing (this I know because she could not hold it and you could see it). she stays in this new relationship for many years and seems 'cured'. him on the other hand is left on his own, wondering why she could not have the same with him, hurt and scarred and unable to shake this feeling of being his fault and being useless.

I am telling you this story because although she seems to 'have the problem' you are the one who is rejected. and is this rejection that creates the most damage in the long run.
I can tell you that the reason why I did not want to have sex with my ex-partners and more importantly why I did not want to discuss it was quite simply that I did not fancy them, I did not find them attractive anymore, I did not love them (truthfully I never loved them), they were not the one I truly wanted (and I knew it). It is a bit a sick game as it is as if you are punishing them for not being 'the one', kind of thing.
now with my dh if we have a rough patch (after birth of dh) we are very aware of it, do discuss it and make time for ourselves etc.

sorry if long dot but I have lived with sexless relationship (my parents, my ILs, my SIL) around me all my life to know that 99% are indicative of deeper issues and not only do not work out but leave deep scars that can ruin your life after the relationship has long ended.

I wish you the best dot but please do not bury your head in the sand. One can leave without sex but one cannot leave with daily rejection from the person that should care, love, fancy you the most.

I am sorry if I sounded like preaching it's just that it is a subject quite close to my heart as I've lived with the consequences of it.