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Worried about Drumcree

306 replies

Dogdogdogdig · 27/09/2026 07:03

I feel like an interloper here and apologies if this isnt in the right place.

im really worried about the decision over Drumcree and I can’t see it ending well today either way.

I have no time for Jamie Bryson or Carla Lockhart and it seems that tensions have been stoked on both sides.

My parents (and one set of grandparents) were a mixed marriage - my mum and dad moved to England in the 1960s, and my granny and grandpa moved back in the late 70s/80s once they retired. Im aware I don’t have enough if a real understanding, but I have enough to be worried.

again, im sorry if this is the wrong place or offensive.

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Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:33

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MarieDeGournay · 27/09/2026 21:37

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 20:20

Yes, I see that. Harkening back hundreds of years to try to justify their wickedness.

The more pertinent history connected to portadown in that regard would probably be the murder of 100+ Protestants who were bayonetted and drowned in the River Bann at Portadown in 1641. Read up on Eleanor Price who was imprisoned, tortured and whose 5 children were murdered.

This can all be read online along with the accounts of hundreds more in the '1641 depositions' made public by Trinity college.

I will teach my children the past, and I will teach them to love their enemy because the past is the past. But republicans teach their children that they are to seek revenge for historical killings from wrongdoings hundreds of years ago.

Northern ireland is a small place. My family members have had to live side by side with people who have murdered our loved ones and have never received justice for it. But they did not retaliate. They prayed for those who persecuted them. And I am not talking about persecution that happened hundreds of years ago to ancestors, I am talking about the slaying of loved ones whose murders and other threats caused by the IRA in their ethnic cleansing of the border counties completely terrorised them. These are things which have left them with PTSD to this day - it does not lessen with time. But they did not seek an eye for an eye, they sought to be forgiving and to pray for those who killed and harmed.

What wickedness are you referring to? I 'harkened back' to the 16th century because I maintain that you have/one has to look at the roots of a conflict to get anything resembling an objective view of it.

You harkened back to the 17th century to mention the 1641 Deposition - which are very well known, and have been digitised and made available by Trinity College Dublin, so they can be widely studied.

Their accuracy isn't 100% guaranteed, as there was great incentive to exaggerate the brutality of 'the natives', but even if only half of it was true, it was a terrible thing, and a great tragedy for those involved. Nobody is denying that.

In my case, being interested in the history doesn't mean 'justifying' any wickedness. But there's a difference between 'justifying' 'explaining' and 'excusing'. One can say that the killings in 1641 were an not unexpected uprising against the occupation and plunder of a country, which took the form of an indiscriminate attack on the occupiers. That is an explanation, not a justification.

It's not unheard-of for oppressed people to turn on their oppressors. If you look around other post-colonial situations, there have been cases of brutal reprisals against the colonists - I challenge you to find equivalence in the Irish War of Independence to the the 1955 El-Halia massacre of women and children in Algeria, for example.

When part of Ireland gained its independence, the opposite was true: both the Proclamation of Independence in 1916 and the Constitution of 1922 were very clear in stating that all religions and backgrounds were to have the same status and respect in the new Irish state. No revenge, no eye-for-an-eye for centuries of murder and oppression. As a Irish citizen of the Irish Republic, that is something I am proud of.

There are many people in Ireland - not just Northern Ireland - who have been traumatised by violence, and by the tragic loss of loved ones. Two members of my family were caught up in Loyalists bombings in Dublin, they were not physically injured, luckily.. One of them missed by minutes one of the the Ulster Volunteer Force bombs which killed over 20 innocent people in Dublin in 1974.

We did not seek an eye for an eye - there were no reprisals. There has also been no justice as the perpetrators were never caught.

You may not accept this, but it is no less painful to have a loved one killed by the British Army, or the UDF, or the RUC, or the B-Specials, or the RIR, or the UFF, or the IVF, or whoever, as it is to have a loved one killed by the IRA.
One set of victims - the ones killed by 'the other side' - are not more tragic than anybody else who was equally human and was equally mourned by their loved ones,

Anonanonanonagain · 27/09/2026 21:38

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And the nastiness commences. The only terrorist sympathisers are the ones wanting a load of old has been orange order misogynists to prance down a road they have no need to go down just to puff out their chests to cause chaos and drama for no purpose bar 'but they said we could'. Tomorrow we will find out who was paid off. Tomorrow hopefully this bull is sorted out and your orange cronies may leave the church by the back door and dander anywhere they want but not in robes and medallions with their bad attitudes and shit for brains banging around the place.

And I will find an Irish forum in say 800 years time when I feel I have to get out of 'your' british one.

Matronic6 · 27/09/2026 21:39

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:25

If the residents are sitting at home with their feet up watching the telly or whatever else they want to do they wouldn't even notice them marching, would they. Republicans can block the road all they like, but they are doing themselves no favours.

First of all they are not standing there as 'republicans' they are residents of Garvaghy Road.

The residents of the road are doing themselves every favour, if they did nothing next year when OO want to march again they will have more licence to do it and TRY come back with a bigger march. They have every right to stand their ground and are sending the message that no march will be welcome down that street and when there is an inevitable application next year the shambles of a PC will know there very much will be community resistance.

They have moved on, OO needs to do the same.

JaneJeffer · 27/09/2026 21:40

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Ooh you couldn’t keep it in

MarieDeGournay · 27/09/2026 21:46

JaneJeffer · 27/09/2026 21:40

Ooh you couldn’t keep it in

I know - 'terrorist sympathiser' - pathetic,. Actually it's also insulting and slanderous, but you develop a thick skin for that kind of name-calling, don't you?

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:47

Matronic6 · 27/09/2026 21:39

First of all they are not standing there as 'republicans' they are residents of Garvaghy Road.

The residents of the road are doing themselves every favour, if they did nothing next year when OO want to march again they will have more licence to do it and TRY come back with a bigger march. They have every right to stand their ground and are sending the message that no march will be welcome down that street and when there is an inevitable application next year the shambles of a PC will know there very much will be community resistance.

They have moved on, OO needs to do the same.

Edited

It's only a shambles when they rule, for once, against nationalists, isn't it.

JaneJeffer · 27/09/2026 21:47

I hope it’s left to stand for all to see

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:48

Whatever view someone takes of the Garvaghy Road route, it is misleading to describe the Drumcree parade itself as a sectarian celebration. The event commemorates men killed in one of the bloodiest battles of the First World War, the Somme. It’s not a triumphal parade of Protestants shoving their victory over Roman Catholics in their faces. Men from both communities died at the Somme.

Matronic6 · 27/09/2026 21:53

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:47

It's only a shambles when they rule, for once, against nationalists, isn't it.

Edited

I repeat, 2,500+ OO marches were approved last year.

leonardandpenny18 · 27/09/2026 21:55

favouriteflowers · 27/09/2026 10:17

Carla Lockhart is on the BBC criticising the first minister for standing with Garvaghy residents. Proving her self not only to be the epitome of evil but a complete hypocrite too!

The “epitome of evil?”

DoubleShotEspresso · 27/09/2026 21:55

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:48

Whatever view someone takes of the Garvaghy Road route, it is misleading to describe the Drumcree parade itself as a sectarian celebration. The event commemorates men killed in one of the bloodiest battles of the First World War, the Somme. It’s not a triumphal parade of Protestants shoving their victory over Roman Catholics in their faces. Men from both communities died at the Somme.

Ahhh so now you are selecting history that only fits your argument? But overlooking the rest?
Jesus wept.

TicklishReader · 27/09/2026 21:56

If it were simply about commemoration, the OO would be happy to have the parade elsewhere.

This is about control and intimidation.

DoubleShotEspresso · 27/09/2026 21:57

For anybody not seeing updates, there are now 33 Orange men left, two of their more elderly members had to return home due to the cold.

JaneJeffer · 27/09/2026 21:58

DoubleShotEspresso · 27/09/2026 21:57

For anybody not seeing updates, there are now 33 Orange men left, two of their more elderly members had to return home due to the cold.

reminds me of Ten Green Bottles 😂

MILLYmo0se · 27/09/2026 21:58

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 19:50

It isn't that they can only walk down this road now, is it? It's that they should not be stopped from walking it. And that they should never have been stopped from doing so.

This does always confuse me...the route they wanted to walk in 1998 and the couple of summers of trouble before isnt the original band route is it? They did used to go through another Catholic part of the town which turn to trouble and afaik the RUC then rerouted it.
So did they always for their decades of walking walk on just a part of the Garavaghy? Or on the same length of it they do since the late 1980s? Or the parade went in a different direction on the Garavaghy prior to the RUC re route?

Anonanonanonagain · 27/09/2026 22:00

DoubleShotEspresso · 27/09/2026 21:57

For anybody not seeing updates, there are now 33 Orange men left, two of their more elderly members had to return home due to the cold.

At least it is proof going forward that they are not being held hostage. Also proof of alternative routes out. Who knew!

TicklishReader · 27/09/2026 22:01

JaneJeffer · 27/09/2026 21:58

reminds me of Ten Green Bottles 😂

33 arseholes sitting in the church

MarieDeGournay · 27/09/2026 22:26

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 21:48

Whatever view someone takes of the Garvaghy Road route, it is misleading to describe the Drumcree parade itself as a sectarian celebration. The event commemorates men killed in one of the bloodiest battles of the First World War, the Somme. It’s not a triumphal parade of Protestants shoving their victory over Roman Catholics in their faces. Men from both communities died at the Somme.

Now I'm confused: either the Orange Order Drumcree march is traditional because it has been happening for generations since 1807 OR it commemorates the Battle of the Somme in 1916? which is it?

And anything the Orange Order does is in the context of them being institutionally anti-Catholic right from its origins.

cocochoola · 27/09/2026 22:26

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Oh wow. That's gross.

Moved back here four years ago after many years living abroad and i have to say, bigotry like this absolutely turns me. The irony of you mentioning in another post about teaching your children - it's these prehistoric views you hold (fitting MN username, btw) that enables this crap to live on.

One thing I've noticed about people who are intent on continuing sectarianism and hatred against people who, at the end of the day, are actually really not that different to you - did you ever travel? Did you ever think of broadening your horizons and actually see how big an interesting and educational the world is? Because this attitude is sad. It's pathetic and it's insular. I'm ashamed to be from here because of people like you.

Ardagusdubh · 27/09/2026 22:30

hafig · 27/09/2026 20:28

Oh give over. The OO marched there in 1807. It’s existed long before NI as a principality did. Sure we will go back to the Vikings. And people call the OO dinosaurs?

Oh the irony! The orange order don’t believe in dinosaurs 😂

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 22:57

cocochoola · 27/09/2026 22:26

Oh wow. That's gross.

Moved back here four years ago after many years living abroad and i have to say, bigotry like this absolutely turns me. The irony of you mentioning in another post about teaching your children - it's these prehistoric views you hold (fitting MN username, btw) that enables this crap to live on.

One thing I've noticed about people who are intent on continuing sectarianism and hatred against people who, at the end of the day, are actually really not that different to you - did you ever travel? Did you ever think of broadening your horizons and actually see how big an interesting and educational the world is? Because this attitude is sad. It's pathetic and it's insular. I'm ashamed to be from here because of people like you.

Listen to yourself, seriously: 'I have lived abroad and have seen the world and you are soooo small minded, if only you were like ME and had travelled'. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 27/09/2026 23:03

Ardagusdubh · 27/09/2026 22:30

Oh the irony! The orange order don’t believe in dinosaurs 😂

What's more ironic is that the orange order believe the Bible, the same Bible which talks about dinosaurs..

Northsidemammy · 27/09/2026 23:03

hafig · 27/09/2026 20:28

Oh give over. The OO marched there in 1807. It’s existed long before NI as a principality did. Sure we will go back to the Vikings. And people call the OO dinosaurs?

The orange order don't believe in dinosaurs.

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