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Worried about Drumcree

421 replies

Dogdogdogdig · 27/09/2026 07:03

I feel like an interloper here and apologies if this isnt in the right place.

im really worried about the decision over Drumcree and I can’t see it ending well today either way.

I have no time for Jamie Bryson or Carla Lockhart and it seems that tensions have been stoked on both sides.

My parents (and one set of grandparents) were a mixed marriage - my mum and dad moved to England in the 1960s, and my granny and grandpa moved back in the late 70s/80s once they retired. Im aware I don’t have enough if a real understanding, but I have enough to be worried.

again, im sorry if this is the wrong place or offensive.

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Anonanonanonagain · 04/10/2026 13:57

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 13:44

To be honest, I don't think that would be terribly helpful. I think avoiding inflammatory rebel songs is the sensible approach. If the OO can be given an out without humiliation, that would be the best result. However, the issue is they don't want an out and presumably won't take one.

I didnt mean it in a positive way. If that is the song Kneecap go with it could fan the flames of a riot, I worded it wrongly.

Abbybright · 04/10/2026 14:21

@Fredflinstoneswife1
There have been unthinkable atrocities on both sides in the past. Everyone knows that.

People don’t want to go back to that. The peace needs protecting. It is still very fragile.

That is why the OO shouldn’t march and why people are so upset that they’ve been let get this far. They should know it themselves. The fact that they don’t says a lot.

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 17:31

Looks like the OO have offered a one and done. To be honest, so long as it's still 35 of them and no bands, I think that would be a reasonable compromise.

I have a recollection of one in the 90's where the residents lined the road with their backs to the OO. They could do that again.

Anonanonanonagain · 04/10/2026 18:41

Kneecap have arrived.

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 20:02

Very convenient that the headlines locally have been wall-to-wall Drumcree in a week when the COL has soared in NI. Means politicians don't have to answer any difficult questions about the price of gas (up nearly 20% on Thursday), electricity or diesel, or its ramifications for the cost of everything else.

Or indeed our fucked HS. The cost of policing this pantomime is currently £3M, which would pay 10 GPs for about four years.

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 20:14

Fredflinstoneswife1 · 04/10/2026 09:03

I’ve apparently committed the cardinal sin this week. I questioned the story the world is being told about Garvaghy Road.

For that: sectarian, bigot, hateful, fascist, Nazi, murderer, uneducated and threats.

Meanwhile: “OUR ROAD.” “NO ORANGE FEET.” “CATHOLIC AREA.”

So before throwing another insult or shouting another slogan, pick up a history book instead of a propaganda leaflet.

Because if you’re going to claim ownership of a road, erase an entire community from its past and call anyone who challenges you a bigot, sectarian, fascist or whatever other names you drag up, you’d better be damn sure history backs you up.

It doesn’t.

The Portadown District Orange parade to Drumcree dates back more than 200 years. Garvaghy Road was largely countryside fields and rose-growing land.

The route existed before the estates did.

The Orange Order didn’t invent a route through an established Catholic housing estate. The housing came later.

During the 1950s and 60s new housing was built around Garvaghy Road, with Catholic families from areas including Obins Street and the Tunnel rehoused there.

Then came the Troubles and increasing segregation. Catholics were displaced. Protestants were displaced.

Here’s the part missing from “OUR AREA”. “OUR ROAD”.

PROTESTANTS LIVED THERE TOO. Within living memory.

Paul Beattie, a Protestant 19 year old murdered in 1972 off Churchill Park on Garvaghy Road, shot dead by Irish republican terrorists.

Roy Rutherford, a Protestant 33 year old murdered in 1973 by an IRA booby-trap bomb on Moy Road.

Edward Clayton, a Protestant 27 year old murdered in 1975 by a booby-trap bomb attached to his car planted by Irish republican terrorists near his Portadown home.

Robert McNally, a Protestant 20 year old murdered in 1979 by an INLA booby-trap bomb attached to his car.

John Truckle, a Protestant 61 year old murdered in 1983 by an IRA booby-trap bomb attached to his car outside his Woodside Hill home.

Five names worth remembering when “murderers” is being thrown around.

Then Wendy Reid (Protestant). She lived in Garvaghy Park for 14 years before saying she was intimidated out around 1980. She moved to Woodside Green.

Sixteen years later she left again after the RUC warned of a threat to burn her house down.

As we arrive into 1981 I have to introduce the present day spokesperson and face for Garvaghy Road residents, Breandán Mac Cionnaith known then as Brendan McKenna.

In 1981 he was involved in a Provisional IRA operation to bomb the Royal British Legion hall in Portadown. A Churchill Park family was held hostage, their car taken and used in the bombing.

McKenna was convicted and imprisoned for offences connected with the operation. That’s recorded in the official Rosemary Nelson Inquiry.

Garvaghy Road was still described as having Catholic and Protestant housing. Not exclusively nationalist.

Catholic and Protestant.

There were still 103 Protestant families living at the bottom of Garvaghy Road.

One Protestant woman described smashed windows, kicked doors and children unable to play safely in the park. She described a six-year-old Protestant boy being surrounded by Catholic teenagers, questioned about his religion and then urinated on.

Her response: “I’m not going to be driven out.”

Ivor Young, who helped establish Portadown’s Concerned Protestants Committee, said many Protestants already had been driven out through nationalist intimidation and their experiences were being ignored.

A Catholic resident in the same report disputed that, saying Protestants weren’t being driven out; when they left, they were simply replaced by Catholics. What does driven out and intimidation look like to you?

Both accounts were being made in 1997.

That same year David Trimble told the House of Commons that, following Brendan McKenna’s election, a nationalist election cortege repeatedly travelled through the Protestant Garvaghy Road/Park Road area at around 2am.

According to Trimble, residents were threatened: “YOU WILL BE BURNT OUT BEFORE JULY.”

Shortly after these threats from McKenna’s election cortège, attacks on homes followed.

For accuracy: that is Trimble’s allegation recorded in Hansard. It does not prove who personally made the threat other than McKenna’s cortège.

A Protestant woman told the Irish Times she had lived for years in Churchill Park on Garvaghy Road but her family “had to leave because of attacks by Catholics.”

She wasn’t named. That doesn’t erase her or her story.

Protestant families in King Street and Whitten Close, immediately off Garvaghy Road, reported repeated sectarian attacks.

One reported incident involved allegations of 30 to 40 nationalist youths throwing stones and bottles at Protestant homes. Residents said they believed they were being driven out.

And that’s the part of this history that matters now.

Somewhere between a road where Catholics and Protestants lived, more than 100 Protestant families were still living in 1997, and the Garvaghy Road of today, something changed.

Today the nationalist stretch is overwhelmingly Catholic. In parts, Protestants are reduced to a tiny minority if at all, sometimes only a handful in the local census area.

No, that doesn’t prove every Protestant who left was intimidated out. But don’t insult people’s intelligence by pretending the rest of the history therefore disappears. Again I ask what does intimidation and being driven out look like to you.

We have Protestant residents saying they were intimidated. Families saying attacks forced them out. Others saying they believed they were being driven out. Irish Republican killings in and around this community. A Churchill Park family held hostage during a PIRA operation. And 103 Protestant families still there in 1997.

Then look at the language today:

“OUR AREA.” OUR ROAD.” “NO ORANGE FEET.”

That’s the bit I refuse to swallow.

When exactly did a shared public road become the property of one community?

When did the people who lived there before cease to count? When did changing demographics become ownership? And when did excluding the identity of the community that once lived there become acceptable language from people simultaneously lecturing everyone else about sectarianism?

Because the road didn’t move. The population did.

The history didn’t disappear. The Protestant population largely did.

Whatever arguments people want to have about why, the historical record above means nobody gets to pretend they were never there. And don’t turn this into whataboutery, if you insist on distorting history for propaganda then you must answer for Garvaghy Road, if you resort to whataboutery, you’ve proven yourself to have no answer.

That is what makes “OUR ROAD” so revealing. That is what makes “NO ORANGE FEET” so ugly. And that is what makes what we’re watching in 2026 impossible to separate from what came before.

Sinn Féin, the SDLP and PBP called on people from across Ireland to come to Garvaghy Road. People answered.

The PSNI subsequently described the obstruction as an “unnotified and therefore illegal protest” and warned that evidence gathering could result in criminal justice consequences.

Their words. Their assessment. Not mine. Saying the word peaceful before protest does not suddenly make it lawful.

Men with documented IRA histories have been prominent around the dispute all week. Paraded proudly and revered by all those in attendance while simultaneously telling people residents were living in fear. They aren’t scared to stand with IRA terrorists though, and just to entertain the bussed in crowds, bands sang pro-IRA songs while the crowd joined in.

Yet thirty-five Orangemen peacefully walking along that public road in silence are presented as intolerable.

“NO ORANGE FEET” - but pro-IRA songs.

If Orange identity is so offensive that 35 men cannot peacefully walk along a public road in silence, explain how pro-IRA songs on that road fit with opposition to sectarianism.

And if it’s historically “OUR AREA.” “OUR ROAD”, explain the Protestants who lived there.

You can’t edit them out because they wreck the slogan. You can’t erase republican violence either.

Which brings us straight back to the words being spat at everyone else:

Sectarian. Bigot. Hateful. Murderer. Fascist. Nazi.

I’m not repeating the history. It’s above.

If you’re having difficulty with those words after reading it, go back and read it again.

So from this point on, ignorance is no excuse.

If, knowing that history, you still erase the Protestants who lived there, shout “OUR ROAD” and “NO ORANGE FEET”, then stand listening to songs glorifying the IRA while calling everyone else sectarian, hateful and bigoted, you’ve answered the question yourself.

You don’t hate sectarianism. You thrive in it.

So either you're Lorna Smyth or you've plagiarised Lorna Smyth's drivel - https://www.facebook.com/lornydiddle/posts/pfbid08rbhgR7aXmx9QzJ8PMurJ6rqMNw2xCibQtAwAjARRizn4aYRxKKLctPNNb6aJ8Znl

Lorna Smyth

I’ve apparently committed the cardinal sin this week. I questioned the story the world is being told about Garvaghy Road. For that: sectarian, bigot, hateful, fascist, Nazi, murderer, uneducated and...

https://www.facebook.com/lornydiddle/posts/pfbid08rbhgR7aXmx9QzJ8PMurJ6rqMNw2xCibQtAwAjARRizn4aYRxKKLctPNNb6aJ8Znl

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/10/2026 20:52

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 20:02

Very convenient that the headlines locally have been wall-to-wall Drumcree in a week when the COL has soared in NI. Means politicians don't have to answer any difficult questions about the price of gas (up nearly 20% on Thursday), electricity or diesel, or its ramifications for the cost of everything else.

Or indeed our fucked HS. The cost of policing this pantomime is currently £3M, which would pay 10 GPs for about four years.

We are the Culture War capital of Europe.

Both the DUP and Sinn Fein work for their ideological goals. Union or United Ireland. They don't give a flying fuck about us living here in NI.

I'm not even sure they care about those things. Maybe they're just riding the gravy train.

Easier to deepen the divide using whatever. Art, toasters, history, ABBA, flags, people's real fears, threats, Derry and anything else. We are cursed because we elected 2 parties to rule, both of which are less interested in the people of Northern Ireland than they are interested in being part of a United Kingdom or a United Ireland.🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I wish they'd fuck the fuck off.😡

Can we not put them on Rathlin or Tory or Craggy, to fight it out while the rest of us get on with living real life in NI in the 2020s?

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 21:46

Yes, @TooBigForMyBoots . It's striking how little they resemble the typical 'Irish' or 'British' person whose identity obsesses them. Most people in Ireland, north or south, are pretty moderate. They don't have fervent religious faith (not the bible-beating kind anyway). They abhorred the actions of terrorists in the Troubles and certainly don't venerate them. They worry about everyday things and complain about the health service, the housing shortage, the awful public transport system, the dilapidated towns and cities, and the employment outlook for their children. They have legitimate concerns about the pace of immigration and how on earth a struggling country can support it. It's doubtful they care much about the right to march, what flag flies where, Irish street signage, Casement Park or a border poll, which could unleash another constitutional nightmare on us. Yet here we are, paralysed again by a 'cultural issue' while the country falls down round our ears...

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 22:06

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 21:46

Yes, @TooBigForMyBoots . It's striking how little they resemble the typical 'Irish' or 'British' person whose identity obsesses them. Most people in Ireland, north or south, are pretty moderate. They don't have fervent religious faith (not the bible-beating kind anyway). They abhorred the actions of terrorists in the Troubles and certainly don't venerate them. They worry about everyday things and complain about the health service, the housing shortage, the awful public transport system, the dilapidated towns and cities, and the employment outlook for their children. They have legitimate concerns about the pace of immigration and how on earth a struggling country can support it. It's doubtful they care much about the right to march, what flag flies where, Irish street signage, Casement Park or a border poll, which could unleash another constitutional nightmare on us. Yet here we are, paralysed again by a 'cultural issue' while the country falls down round our ears...

I’m Irish and living in the republic. I’m an atheist and abhorred the actions of the terrorists. Most of the issues you mentioned are ones I have concerns about.

However, I am an advocate of the Irish language, would like to see a border poll but not now. I was vaguely hopeful that things were moving in the right direction for an agreed unity but less so now. I don’t think we should have a border poll until a large majority support unity. And I really don’t know how we would cope with the OO dinosaurs and their supporters like Lorna Smyth aka Fredflinstoneswife1.

It’s a mess.

AgeingMillennial · 04/10/2026 22:08

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 22:06

I’m Irish and living in the republic. I’m an atheist and abhorred the actions of the terrorists. Most of the issues you mentioned are ones I have concerns about.

However, I am an advocate of the Irish language, would like to see a border poll but not now. I was vaguely hopeful that things were moving in the right direction for an agreed unity but less so now. I don’t think we should have a border poll until a large majority support unity. And I really don’t know how we would cope with the OO dinosaurs and their supporters like Lorna Smyth aka Fredflinstoneswife1.

It’s a mess.

I was told Dublin are… reluctant to absorb NI due to the ‘demographics’ and potential expense in doing so, were they right?

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 22:22

AgeingMillennial · 04/10/2026 22:08

I was told Dublin are… reluctant to absorb NI due to the ‘demographics’ and potential expense in doing so, were they right?

They'll certainly be even more reluctant now.

I would like to see unity, but the route there would be agony.

Would shudder to think of what might happen if a referendum was called and it returned a narrow pro-unity majority. The loyalists and republicans in the north would be like fighting dogs locked on each others' throats. When you think it took Westminster 30+ years to get from Home Rule bills to partition, it's not a prospect anyone would relish.

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 22:34

AgeingMillennial · 04/10/2026 22:08

I was told Dublin are… reluctant to absorb NI due to the ‘demographics’ and potential expense in doing so, were they right?

Not sure why my reply is hidden. Maybe they didn’t like me referring to Lorna Smyth as a dinosaur?

There are a lot of practical concerns (e.g. NHS, percentage of public servants in NI etc) but there are also ideological concerns. Dealing with the likes of the OO is going to be difficult. How on earth do we bring them along?

BeanNaGealai · 04/10/2026 22:58

AInightingale · 04/10/2026 22:22

They'll certainly be even more reluctant now.

I would like to see unity, but the route there would be agony.

Would shudder to think of what might happen if a referendum was called and it returned a narrow pro-unity majority. The loyalists and republicans in the north would be like fighting dogs locked on each others' throats. When you think it took Westminster 30+ years to get from Home Rule bills to partition, it's not a prospect anyone would relish.

That’s exactly my concern. We need an overwhelming majority for reunification if it’s going to work. NI was set up so as to maximise the land area while still maintaining a Protestant majority and look where that got us.

hellomylov3 · 09/10/2026 21:02

Great news!

DoubleShotEspresso · 09/10/2026 21:50

What a relief!
Common sense prevails-FINALLY!
I really hope that all goes peacefully in the next day or two 🙏

AInightingale · 09/10/2026 21:58

Errr...I hope I'm wrong, but I can't imagine anything more guaranteed to make the loyalist community go off like Krakatoa.

It doesn't take much, tbh.

DoubleShotEspresso · 09/10/2026 22:03

AInightingale · 09/10/2026 21:58

Errr...I hope I'm wrong, but I can't imagine anything more guaranteed to make the loyalist community go off like Krakatoa.

It doesn't take much, tbh.

It’s a real worry

Matronic6 · 09/10/2026 22:06

About time. It's ridiculous it dragged on for this long. Hopefully the situation will be a reminder of the tentative nature of peace in the north of Ireland and we can move forward focusing on community respect and cohesion.

JaneJeffer · 09/10/2026 23:21

Surely they’ll be glad to get in out of the cold.

MarieDeGournay · 10/10/2026 10:20

I believe this is the part of the Pulbic Processions (NI) Act 1998 that Bryant has invoked

11Secretary of State’s powers to prohibit public processions.

(1)If, in the case of any proposed public procession, the Secretary of State is of the opinion that, having regard to—

(a)any serious public disorder or serious damage to property which may result from the procession;
(b)any serious disruption to the life of the community which the procession may cause;
(c)any serious impact which the procession may have on relationships within the community; and
(d)any undue demands which the procession may cause to be made on the police or military forces,

it is necessary in the public interest to do so, he may by order prohibit the holding of that procession.
Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1998

In other words, he had the power to step in immediately and say that although the march was legal, he was prohibiting the march 'in the public interest' under 11.1. b, c, and d.

It was clear that the OO were never going to call off the march, and it was clear that the resident were never going to agree to it, so why did he let it all drag on so damagingly? Scared of the DUP/OO/Loyalists, I bet.

Good to see that the residents and their reps have responded by very wisely saying that there is no cause for celebration. I can imagine there are plenty of young bucks there who would like nothing better than to do some flag-waving and whooping and up the ra-ing, but this is a good opportunity to show which side the grown-ups are on.

turkeyboots · 10/10/2026 11:36

Michelle O'Neil and others has been asked to come in for a police interview with regards breaking protest laws too, so hopefully that will calm the unionist side a bit too.

www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2026/1008/1594589-drumcree-dispute/

Mossyfox · 10/10/2026 15:30

It was a good decision and a total mad idea to originally have decided to allow the parade in the first place.

BeanNaGealai · 10/10/2026 16:10

Mossyfox · 10/10/2026 15:30

It was a good decision and a total mad idea to originally have decided to allow the parade in the first place.

And a decision that should have been taken as soon as the PC made their decision. Leaving it this length has only caused more harm.

JaneJeffer · 10/10/2026 18:01

BeanNaGealai · 10/10/2026 16:10

And a decision that should have been taken as soon as the PC made their decision. Leaving it this length has only caused more harm.

Makes you wonder what they hoped would happen.