Referendum pt 2

[VoteNONO]

Started another thread as the first one was full.

Sorry I disagree. I don't agree with all their policies but they are proper opposition.
Peadar Toibín is a strong leader & I think they will grow rapidly following this referendum. I no longer have allegiance to any party but I'll certainly be looking to Aontú & the Independents going forward.
Leo, Roderic, Michael, Mary Lou & Éamon Ryan do not represent me

Aontù represents the voice of some people including myself who have no one to speak for them at government level.

I'm genuinely interested in this viewpoint. What views are Aontú expressing that you feel aren't represented by Government or opposition parties?

And how do you perceive these views translating into anything tangible? They have one TD, a handful of local representatives & some quite despicable views on immigration, say, that I'm assuming are not the viewpoints you are glad they are exposing?

Aontú's rationale for a NN vote certainly isn't mine.

they are proper opposition

Ah come on! They're going precisely nowhere. Peadar Toibín is their single elected representative - how can that be 'proper' anything?

I think they will grow rapidly following this referendum.

Without a doubt, they won't.

but I'll certainly be looking to Aontú & the Independents

What do you think they'll do? While independents can influence policy, by their votes, there's no prospect of this grouping ever posing a significant challenge in terms of forming a government. It's just impractical to think otherwise.

We will remain an immature and divided society when people like me are labelled lunatics because apparently that's what I am if they are!!

Oh the irony that we are labelled lunatics when that's what anyone who disagreed with mainstream opinions in the 1950s were called. Liberalism isn't so Liberal after all!!

www.rte.ie/news/referendum-39th-amendment/results/#/national

Live results tracker (a reliable one!)

Don't be daft & do exercise some reading skill!

I said Aontú are lunatics. In my view, they are - or at least hold lunatic views, to be specific.

Unless you're a card holding member, I'm not referring to you, in the same way as someone criticising another political party I happened to have voted for wouldn't be criticising me.

And even if you are - you're entitled to be, and I'm entitled to an opinion.

I can't see anything worthwhile in the regressive & illogical approaches of this 'party'

HTH

Well I cannot & will not vote SF, FG, FF, Labour or Greens. So by a process of elimination that leaves me with Aontú & the Independents. That's where my support will go. Obviously my independents support will depend on how much they align with my values.

I feel the tone here is put up & shut up. I am not one bit happy with the current mainstream political parties.

So the only way to see real change is to get them out of power. The only opposition being Aontú /independents unless a huge new opposition party springs up

Do you mean Ireland 'here' or MN 'here'?

You should vote for who you wish, of course. Voting Aontú will achieve nothing. By their nature Independents are not any kind of homogenous group, so voting for one of them is usually on the basis of local advocacy, and also won't achieve any change.

IMO, you are better served lobbying political representatives on key issues & voting for those you feel respond.

I'll admit, I've little truck with 'they're all terrible' as I think it's reductive. I don't agree with elements of Government policy or rate certain individuals. But it's never going to be all-consuming, and I think it's best to stay objective.

a huge new opposition party springs up

Of course it won't. How could it? What would it represent? Where would it come from & what party machinery would be available?

Being honest, your approach is extraordinarily simplistic.

@EarringsandLipstick quite simply the current government do not represent me. I want real change. I am deeply unhappy with the current state of the country & I dread to think what state it will be in down the line. I want real change. That's my opinion & I will not be swayed regardless of how "extraordinarily simplistic" you perceive it to me.
As a member of the electorate my opinion matters just as much as anyone else's.

It's always YES/NO or TÁ/NÍL on the ballot paper in that order. The government makes a proposal. You agree with it or not. Let's not be seeing conspiracies in it.

Some journalists on twitter have stated tweeting that No/No has got off to a very strong start this morning 🙏

I was hugely disappointed in the lead up to the vote with NGOs such as Women's Council of Ireland, Carers Ireland and others who were heavily promoting Yes Yes closing down discussion. Social media users were very vocal with these organisations begging them to reconsider or at least explain why they felt some of the objections against their decision were not valid. It would appear some groups didn't consult members or indeed pay any heed to those who asked them to rethink. Instead they blocked comments on twitter, Facebook etc. I feel that a lot of damage has been done to these organisations and it will take a long time to recover, if ever.

The Ditch revelation with the AG advice is also very concerning. It seems we were lied to. There should be a huge fallout from this for those that colluded with the deception in the first place and those that accepted it without question
This along with the further revelation in today's press that Catherine Martin's adviser who failed to do her job properly got a huge payout of over €200k when she left. This is deeply concerning. I could go on 😄

As for what party represents me now? I genuinely don't know. I had supported SF but hearing and seeing how they have treated some members especially women has made me run a mile. I had thought it was maybe one or two disgruntled members but it seems to be endemic. Open to suggestions for alternatives😄

While I agree we need a shake up in the government, I don't see any real alternatives.
SF will never get my vote, and unfortunately independents are not a cohesive group to form a government, plus there's not enough of them.

Some serious thinking required by me before the next election.

Oh I'm going to leave it here. I recognised your right to any opinion you want and any political choice you want! I said that clearly.

But you aren't going to get change from some imaginary new party, and you're not going to get it from a tiny minority grouping with no political power.

If you really want change, get involved at local level, directly or indirectly in local governance, then push for the people you want to see elected. Bear in mind much excellent work happens outside Government so advocacy matters.

I don't agree with you about the state of the country & wouldn't dismiss every single political party either. There are excellent committed representatives. And we are doing a lot better than many other countries, not least our nearest neighbours. It's worth backing up emotional viewpoints with facts & evidence too.

Agree @FuzzyCaoraDhubh . Never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity as a wise man said. The giant corporations run the world and laugh at the puny nation states - even the USA. They do it on live TV. What need of a conspiracy?

Peadar Tóibín ....I don't class him as a populist rabble rouser tbh. People's views on immigration don't fall into a simple binary if you will excuse that word. For example my hairdresser is annoyed that Ukrainians get preferential treatment because ' it's not fair on our asylum seekers , they get nothing '.

I thought that 'our" was very revealing. Our asylum seekers have been in the convent since the 90s. Where would we put them if we didn't have these old boarding schools come to think of it? What a country .....

This is the first early tally I've seen, very definite No No from the Ballyfermot electorate

Journal has a live blog, both family and care are a no from the boxes that have been opened. Family closer than care but still looking like a no

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-referendums-6321852-Mar2024/

Thanks @EarringsandLipstick

Looks like its a definite no to both

It's very interesting. I mean, it's the way I voted and I think it was the right way to vote, but I didn't anticipate that so many people would see it the same way.

I was confident care was going to be a no but I thought the family one would be much tighter than its appearing

So it really shows a divide between politics, media, the ngo sector and people. They will need to be much less incestuous and loosen up the old ties if they don't want this on the reg, as the kids say.

@StephanieSuperpowers I didn't meet one person who wasn't voting No No. Online & on twitter was a huge No No but that's usually more of an echo chamber.
Delighted us women & mothers can celebrate us constitutional survival this afternoon & tomorrow 🍾🥂

Love the significance of them holding this farce on International Women's Day & Mothers Day now😁 Makes our victory all the more poignant