Gender critical in Ireland

[Muppetryofthepenis]

Just wondering if there are many others out there. Was reading a political pamphlet and it was going on about self ID and how important it is. I just don't agree and think it's so damaging to change the definition of what a woman is. And the definition of a man too, I guess. Sex based rights are under threat in Ireland. Fed up with all the nonsense. Wondering what other Irish mumsnetters think.

I think they use a sorting hat to assign prisoners to each wing. The hat then decides the gender of each prisoner by assessing their authentic inner gender identity.
It never fails.
😉😉😉

Good to have that explained ;-)

I was wondering how it had happened that without that all important legal definition we had ended up putting all the men in one set of prisons and all the women in another (until Self ID of course).

www.rte.ie/news/health/2023/0215/1356866-flanagan-tavistock-uk/
Let's hope this proceeds and is not buried. Several consultant endocrinologists had been raising the alarm about referrals to Tavistock not being in the child's best interest. Surely it can't know be ignored seeing as though the Tavistock scandal is making headlines in the UK - papers that previously ignored the issues are now reporting on it.

Just listening to Simon Coveney on the radio. It was either RTE1 or Newstalk. He was giving great praise to Nicola Sturgeon. He's not a Mumsnetter so.

I was hoping the male interviewer might ask him about her (NS) stance on male rapists in female jails but he didn't.

As a minister, Coveney would have to be diplomatic about Sturgeon. He may have some time for her from the Brexit negotiations too. He was on Newstalk's Hard Shoulder here.

There was some brief gender-related discussion on the same show with Shelagh Fogarty, and SNP MP John Nicolson brought up the issue of rapists being placed in women's prisons in Scotland due to SNP policies. (Couldn't happen here, of course.) Clip is here.

We are painfully uniformed in Ireland by our media about the realities of Scotland and Sturgeon's awful period in power. Sturgeon, like Jacinda Ardern, is considered kind, empathetic, and on the right side of history, and thus can do no wrong. Una Mullaly offers this: "We should all be concerned about decent people like Nicola Sturgeon leaving politics" (full article may be on archive sites).

Charlie Flanagan does deserve credit for again raising the scandal of GIDS at Tavistock, and the HSE continuing to refer children to them, even after the shocking interim Cass Report. A pity he didn't do anything on prisons when he was at Justice, though, or speak out about them now.

The Irish Independent also covered Hannah Barnes' new book Time to Think this week here (also may be archived).

That review has some jarring elements in it. She questions Barnes' objectivity but is writing as a satisfied service user which hardly makes her objective herself. She's talking about her child using the service a decade ago. She reports staff concerns as if they're Barnes (for example the homophobia/transing away the gay trends reported). She says the book has no positive outcomes reported but the excerpts I saw did (still waiting on my copy to arrive). And she berates Barnes for not "asking the hard questions" because staff who were positive about the Tavi wouldn't speak to her. Hardly a fair criticism and to me it seems the hard questions on this topic are the ones that counter the prevailing ideological narrative.

Donal O'Shea gets prizes for challenging that narrative (as does Ciara Kelly): www.goloudplayer.com/episodes/concerns-raised-over-the-new-gen-MmJlNzE2YzcyYTEwMTQwZGZjNzgwMWIxZDc0ZThkM2Y= There's an article in the Daily Mail as well. I have so much admiration for him and the line he is taking on this issue. The treatment of the NGS is a disgrace. 60 years of experience between them and they're treated as if they are irrelevant to the path the state takes.

I think the mother gave a reasonably fair account of their own experience with Tavistock GIDS, as well as the serious concerns Barnes relates in the book. Not objective, but her interests were declared.

Thanks for the link to the Newstalk piece. I'd pay a lot of my licence fee to them rather the RTE if I could. Ciara Kelly is (IMO) a rock of sense. And Donal O'Shea, one of Ireland's foremost experts in this area, should carry a lot of weight here, above the "NGO" lobby groups.

This might be the Mail article on Norma Foley's idiotic and harmful plans:
'Scrap plan' to let teens under 18 change gender - expert

Seems the LGFA have issues their transgender player guidance without consultation with players - twitter.com/DLoughrey83/status/1626339543958933505?t=l-dP7uzMZ60zkoW1wi6JgA&s=19

Policy here -
ladiesgaelic.ie/the-lgfa/about-us/governance/

My daughter plays at u13s and my niece is headed for a County level place. This is a shit show.

Absolutely ridiculous.
An absolute case of "so open minded their brains have fallen out".

"The Association is committed to the inclusion of Trans-women into the LGFA. The Association intends that those Trans-women who have their LGFA Transgender Application Form (the ‘Application Form’) approved are supported in doing so in a safe and inclusive environment. The Association reiterates that it will not tolerate any harassment or discrimination within the LGFA.......

This Policy applies to all Trans-women, over the age of 12, who seek to play, or continue playing, Ladies Gaelic Football.........

.....It is expected that unacceptable risks will likely only arise in the most exceptional circumstances and will not arise solely from the mere participation of a Trans-woman’s participation."

DNeices are heavily involved...it will be all well and good until the u15s meet another team with a 15year old trans-girl, who will scythe their way through the opposing team.
I fully expect injuries to be ascribed to poor tackling ability on the part of the girls, not the unfair advantage of the male bodied person playing.

Jesus that's awful - has there been any pushback? Surely parents up and down the country will be shaking their heads at this?

I suppose the problem is legally, once a man gets that bit of paper, they are classified as a woman and to exclude them could be discrimination. Which is completely bullshit, but it all comes back to the ridiculous legislation.

I do wonder when we are going to have our Scotland moment here in Ireland - it all seems so placid, so accepting of this crap - but I know from talking to people about this that people are angry and frustrated, but don't want to make a fuss and are trying to just ignore it.
Particularly parents of young children, they are worried about what is being taught in schools. Why is there not more of a pushback? I attended a rally of sorts a year or two ago but there was about 20 people there, I just can't believe how quiet it all is here and this shit is just trundling on.

extra.ie/2022/09/09/news/transgender-gaa-player-speaks-out
(I haven't read the article again...think the first photo speaks volumes)
Just posting this again in case it's forgotten. This is what the LGFA are supporting....don't be fooled by the narrative of a poor little child who just wants to play with friends. Glad my daughter gave up GAA now and her sport seem sensible so far.

For further enlightening info on this individual google their name and fetish...but of course their is no sexual element to it at all, my mistake.
This is who the LGFA choose to support instead of standing firm for our daughters.

I really hope that this is the thing that makes people wake up. While I don't always agree with the sometimes ridiculous level of allegiance to GAA we have, it is embedded almost everywhere. Surely now parents will realise the implications for girls? My older two girls have given up GAA, I'm actually glad they have now, but my younger one still plays. There's no way I would let her play against boys of the same age, their strength alone would make it unsafe, but how on earth are we supposed to support girls' in sport when this is the scenario we expect them to play in?

Was the LGFA ruling covered in the sports sections of the papers over the weekend? I know of conversations with people who work with kids in the GAA who didn't know (and couldn't believe) this ruling. If there's to be an outcry as there should be people need to know. For anyone involved, please raise the issue.

The only way things are going to change on the ground or at legislative level is if ordinary people make it an issue that can't be ignored.

I had a scan of major papers and rte news online yesterday morning...the independent had a piece on it but paywalled so I didn't read it. Didn't come across anything else

The Irish Times had this basic report on the change: Transgender players given green light by Ladies Gaelic Football Association. The Irish Independent report had some comments on the dangers of allowing males play with women and girls: New LGFA rules allow transgender girls to play Gaelic football – but not everyone is happy. I want to see sports columnists speak out strongly against this.

BTW, if you go to archive-dot-is and paste in the article address, the full text may be available to read there.

There's a thread on the Feminist board and both articles can be read there.

The sad thing is , this being Ireland, a lot of people will just pull their kids out of GAA , 'sure what can you do ' etc.

Rugby seems to have taken a more responsible approach. I remember Cork hurlers going on strike a few years ago. Also a ladies GAA team withdrawing from games in Mayo over some dispute. So I could be wrong!

I haven't seen any reporting on this apart from the Sunday Independent, which is pretty good on reporting on the issue. But even that report was short.
In contrast, the IRFU decision to side with the science and keep the sport single sex was widely reported and commented on by Leo Varadker
www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/leo-varadkar-urges-irfu-listen-27720605
Thankfully the IRFU had the evidence to back them up. I suppose they have had enough incidents of concussion through the years to realise that they didn't need to add to add a whole list of women to the total.

Isn't it mad that they "need" scientific evidence to back up what we all know: that on average men are bigger and stronger than women. When a woman is beaten to death by a man no-one wonders about how that possibly happened and why she didn't fight back hard enough. We know why. The government knows why. The size and strength differential on the street or in the home doesn't disappear as you walk through the gates to a sports field.

You could well be right. "Don't make a fuss" also runs deep in us.

I was talking to DH about this last night*. He's much more pragmatic about it than I am. He played a lot in his youth and has long (and current) extended family involvement at club and county level so he knows the machinations a lot better than I do. His take is that this has been done as an arse covering to avoid the social media fall out if they don't have a policy and actually buy time to allow more sporting organisations take the opposite view and research to come out to give an easier way for them to reverse the policy. He also thinks that selectors, county boards, mentors and under age team coaches are just going to ignore it and play the teams they view to be fair. I'm doubtful, especially if a long poorly performing team spots an easy opportunity, but I really hope he's right about it. I'm going to be talking to my brother about my niece, and I'll be talking to my dd's coaches (two of the soundest women you'll ever meet) to see what they think.

*I apologise for the hideous "my dh says"-ing here, but I'm just giving a perspective of someone who knows more than I do and who happens to be him!

I don't think I would want to be a coach failing to select the trans girl for a team. Even if you wanted to.

Yes, wouldn't the approch taken shift the responsibility and fall-out on to the coaches @AinmÁlainn?

*approach🙄