Refugees

[InayaWoo]

Am I wrong to feel the people of this country are using the "Cost of Living" narrative to justify not helping migrants and refugees who seek refuge for themselves? Neglecting our British values, passing the buck to Rwanda and European countries. The attitude towards those fleeing war zones and risking everything to come to this country on harsh waters is outrageous!

I was in the corner shop today and over heard a couple of women making digs about foreigners. To make unjustified claims such as "it makes us unsafe", "we don't have jobs" or my personal favourite - "they don't integrate into society." What on earth has happened to our British values? To make others feel welcome and to help others in need of help!

Every human has a right to safety, affordable housing, food, water, education and a healthcare system. Those are all things our wonderful country can provide and quite frankly has a moral obligation to provide for those coming from other parts of the world that aren't as fortunate as us.

Absolute gaslighting. I didn’t ask who murdered children, as you very well know. I asked who threw acid in the face of little kids. Shall we go to your country of origin and pull up child/mother murders and oppression? It’s medieval. We don’t want it here

How many skilled or entry level jobs do you imagine there are for the people that live here? How is an immigrant taking a job NOT stopping a local getting a job?

But don't we all sit at home on benefits?

😂

Look up ‘irony’ in the dictionary.

And ‘sarcasm’ while you’re there.

@Numberfish , what on earth are you talking about? Of course we are not full- this country has plenty of room. Hospitals, doctors, schools etc are a massive problem because our government is not investing enough in ensuring there are enough for all of us. And that includes the 600k legal migrants who they have given permission to come. It’s government policy you should be blaming, not individuals!! and actually that applies to certain areas- ie London and the south east being overcrowded- where is the planning for where people will live and work?

Of course we are not full- this country has plenty of room.

I beg to differ.

Mass immigration is clearly worsening the housing crisis. It has ‘increased the overall demand for housing’ (says the Office of National Statistics) and ‘increases house prices’ (according to the Journal of Housing Economics ).
One home will have to be built every five minutes, night and day, just to cope with record levels of immigration according to England ONS Projection.

Unless immigration is brought down the housing crisis will continue indefinitely, largely to the detriment of our young people. The UK’s green countryside will continue to be swallowed up by the construction of housing.

I used to live in a market town in the countryside. I left last year,
In the 5 years before I left every bit of available space was being sold for housing, people's gardens, even some fields.
The place was getting overcrowded, no doctors appointments to be had for love nor money. NHS Dentist full up to the gunnels, one other private dentist charging an arm and a leg for treatments.
Council property waiting list a mile long.

Traffic jams in the town centre could back up 2 miles. They used the lane I lived on as a 'rat-run' one of the reasons I left.

I don’t think we have ‘plenty of room’

Someone just posted a people per km on the Covid thread for Sweden

It’s not plenty. And we need to get our shit together quite frankly in terms with of food and energy security

I absolutely agree by the way this level of immigration is not sustainable. But it’s for the government sort out. The GP question is a different thing- we need more training and more provision- and it should have started 10 years ago!

I think you will find the UK population is growing at well under 0.5% a year, and most of that is through births rather than immigration

Pretty easy to work that one out. We have major problems in recruiting staff in a number of areas including farming, care, catering, and the NHS. As of September 2023 there were 121,070 vacancies in secondary care in England, of which 8,858 were medical. If an immigrant came in and filled one of those vacancies, we would still be struggling to recruit for the rest, so blatantly they aren't taking jobs away from anyone.

That’s blatantly ridiculous. What do you think would happen if those foreign workers didn’t turn up? Government would have to invest in training. Because they are allowed, the government cheats both the countries who lose staff and the children of the UK. There is literally nothing to your argument than short-termism and self-justification.

I do indeed know that you conveniently restricted your post to throwing acid. However, it was in response to my post referring to the dishonesty of using cases such as last week's to make an argument that all refugees are dangerous thugs whom we are importing into our totally innocent non-violent population.

By all means go to my country of origin and pull up cases involving murders of mothers and children. Unfortunately you won't have too much trouble finding them, as my country of origin is England. It is, however, fascinating that you assume otherwise.

I do indeed know that you conveniently restricted your post to throwing acid

The criminal restricted his actions to throwing acid

Nothing to do with me. It’s a horrific crime and rising which is awful

Best to look at behaviour and cultural background to understand why and what typically happens next

We have foreign workers turning up, we still have over 100,000 NHS vacancies, and that's a problem which goes back several years. Do tell us what training and incentives the Government has invested in in order to fill them. Ditto for catering, farming, care etc.

I agree we shouldn't be actively recruiting staff from countries that need them, but that is a totally different argument from the one I was replying to, namely your claim that an immigrant taking up employment MUST be taking a job from English people. You are again shifting ground when your argument becomes difficult to defend. Your original argument could only work if we had at least close to full employment, and obviously we are a very long way away from that.

The poster conveniently restricted their post to one instance of one offence. That makes it really irrelevant to the whole discussion.

Sweetie, you think you’re winning arguments with your twisting of the facts: England has an infinitely less incidence of violence against women and children as you well know, and what does happen is robustly policed compared to other countries. You know this. Pretending otherwise weakens any argument that you think you might have had. And I picked ‘acid throwing’ because that’s what’s in the news: British people don’t do that. And you know that as well. It’s fine to say that all immigrants should be restricted from coming here if we’re importing violence and misogyny to our streets even if it’s a small percentage that act on it. That’s the reason you lock your door at night despite burglaries in your area being very rare per house per night. Nobody accuses you of racism for that. Stop making childish dissimulations that wouldn’t stand up in a sixth form debate and accept that the truth is no longer made taboo by those that want to import cheap labour and don’t care about the consequences for innocent people.

oh this is the bonkers give a spare room away thread sane poster as on the Thames one

There are 600,000 plus legal migrant workers who arrive each year to plug gaps in the NHS, Education, Care Work etc. They are invited and have a right to be housed. 600,000 is approximately the size of a city like Sheffield. Imagine trying to build that many new homes each year. It is clearly not feasible. it is easy to say that the Government should train more people but a lot of the jobs filled by outside workers are not popular with people looking for work in the UK. I am a secondary teacher. Lots of kids wanting to be lawyers and accountants. I know very few who have expressed interest in Nursing.
You only have to look at the endless threads on MN where so many posters think it is their Human Right to have a cosy WFH job. Since Covid the number of women in paid employment has fallen dramatically ( same for men but more so for women). All the posters who complain so vociferously about the NHS would never dream of working in Health Care or Care Work. The UK is desperate to recruit Healthcare professionals from abroad. without them the NHS would collapse still further. They have to be housed.
What is a concern is the migrants arriving illegally by boat or lorry or what have you. Who could have asked for asylum at the first safe country they arrived in but chose to head for the UK. This is group that many people do not welcome.

Lol you’re literally agreeing with what I say: the only interesting part in your blinkered opinion is why you have been trained to think this way. You’re either an immigrant background or a child soaking up the propaganda that we have endless resources to give away. We don’t. We really don’t any more. Actual people are suffering by having their resources, education, housing, taxes, funding, access to medicine and opportunities stolen and you’re too naive, privileged or greedy to admit it. It’s a very 2018 position only now pushed by immigrant lobbyists and the BBC.

Sorry, the answer to people not wanting to work as nurses is to value and invest in nursing, not further undercut the wages, opportunities and working standards by importing people in behind their backs.

The sheer irony of you accusing others of twisting arguments is off the scale when we can see that that is what you have been doing repeatedly in this thread. You keep trying to move away from the original point because it shows the weaknesses in your argument, and you keep misrepresenting the points that I and others are making. Your problems in using English clearly yourself probably contribute to your difficulty with putting together an argument that actually works. In addition, you really show up the weaknesses in your case when you resort to being patronising.

What is particularly noticeable from your posts is a massive paucity of facts combined with some extraordinary assumptions about other posters' personal lives. A couple of days ago you were confidently talking about crime in my "country of origin", now you're equally confidently talking about the area where I live and my personal motivations for actions you know nothing about. You're making up some sort of fictional world which is irrelevant to this discussion.

Again you are making up total fiction about me. It is literally pointless engaging in that.

Well, using that figure, that's still 350,000, so it's adding a city the size of Cardiff every year.

It's unsustainable.

That figure doesn't count all the people who come illegally and aren't detected.