COVID vaccine? Does it do anything?

[Greybottle]

I jumped at getting the COVID vaccines when they came out and I got all the vaccines that I was eligible for to date except for this year.

I got COVID in the summer time and I wasn't able to get the vaccine this winter. My GP recommended a 4 month wait.

It's just I got COVID twice. Once in 2022 and I had that bad too. I wasn't hospitalised but still I was ill with fever, body aches, headaches and coughs for over a week. I was rushed back to work prepaturely when I still wasn't 100% better.

I got COVID this summer too. I was floored with it.

A lot of people were floored with it this summer. Even though we got the COVID vaccines.

It's just I got a reminder text to book the vaccine today and I just don't know.

I am not anti vaccine but what is the point of the vaccine when youre still going to get exposed and become ill to this anyways?

I got flu in 2004 or 2005 and I was getting flu vaccine because of my work from about 2008 and I never had flue since 04/05. The flu vaccine works. But I am questioning the COVID vaccine? What is the point of going out of my way to travel to an establishment to get jabbed and sore for a few days and if I am exposed to COVID, I am likely still going to get it.

well, I'm obviously a CT so which one or ones? Which CT would I subscribe to as a result of not wanting a covid injection?

goes without saying.

I’m presuming that you’d advocate widespread education through some accessible means? But whose education? What about those that disagree with your sanctioned information?

Which begs the question if MSM media are delivering the fear and misinformation, where are you getting your truths from?

Never said it was a good thing, but I also don’t think unregulated information should be treated like it’s as good as information that has a process to be held accountable.

sweet lord, a proper , balanced public health campaign is about as far away from the covid messaging as you could ever hope to have,
Surely you can see that?

@UnitedOps but that's how it should be - Covid would be on the death certificate as they died with Covid and then the cause is listed too

My mum died of sepsis but she died with dementia so both are listed

@Notmoog I’m not drilling down into the specifics of the CV19 pandemic, I’m taking on board what you’re saying about the media and government and asking what your alternative is and how it achieves better public information and education.

if a large part of your stance is based on lack of faith in popular sources then it’s on you to suggest better. You’re the one asking deities for help if people follow information sources, so share the better way you’ve identified.

the quote showed that no positive test was needed for covid to be a COD.
In the midst of respiratory season doctors were told to put covid if there were signs of it but no positive test.
Your mum will have been properly diagnosed with dementia and sepsis.
Many people with covid on their certificate were never diagnosed with covid

Yup. My dad died two years ago from heart failure but epilepsy was listed on his death cert despite not having a seizure for months.

I take it your dad had been diagnosed with epilepsy?

Very sorry to hear this. Presumably he may have been on Epilepsy medications which can contribute to heart failure? Which may have been why it was listed.

That’s what I figured too as did the registrar when I went to register it.

@Notmoog yes, but it wasn’t a direct A-B cause, just like CV being listed on death certs weren’t always the ‘direct cause’. As you’re so knowledgable on it, can I ask - how many death certs were revised post-pandemic? I imagine having no formal diagnosis on record would make it fairly easy to achieve.

but that;s a completely different scenario. The whole point is that people were having covid put on their DC when there was no positive test.

What do you mean by diagnosed? If the most probable cause of someone's symptoms is Covid, then a doctor can diagnose it without a positive sample. For example there is no sepsis blood test. There is no dementia blood test. The doctor makes the diagnosis as best judgement with all available evidence.

In fact there were many situations where people with covid had negative tests but were later found to have COVID. Why does your skeptisicm of so much not extend to tests?

In fact Covid tests were only around 95% sensitive. Meaning that 5 in every 100 people with COVID would have had negeative tests even if they had COVID.

These were the guidelines doctors and others completing death certificates followed . They didn’t just include Covid to make the figures look higher!!

Doctors are required by law to certify the cause of death 'to the best of their knowledge and belief'. This means the medical professional believed COVID-19 had been involved in the chain of events that led to the death. Testing could inform part of the information provided by the medical professional, but they could also use other information (such as symptoms and x-rays, for example). This means that someone could have COVID-19 on the death certificate who may not have been tested for COVID-19. Also, in some cases, the person may have tested positive for COVID-19, but the medical professional believed that COVID-19 did not play a part in the death. This means COVID-19 would not appear on the death certificate.

@Notmoog ok, so how many death certs were revised post-pandemic?

I’m also waiting to find out what you consider the gold standard of information and distribution on a population level.

Spot on. A doctor uses their best clinical judgement, along with all AVAILABLE tests to decide the most probable cause of death, and any contributing causes.

If a Swab isn't available but all symptoms point to covid, it's perfectly acceptable to put this as the most likely cause of death. No conspiracy here I'm afraid.

the direction of this thread reminds me of when Richard Fairbass fell off a ladder, went to hospital, tested positive for Covid with low oxygen sats and then raged for days about how his fall was nothing to do with Covid. You’d think he’d have looked up the symptoms hypoxia causes.

I mean.... I guess if the ladder was high enough 😂
Like 2000m high.

who's richard Fairbass?

you know, this is really weird and I can't understand how I've overlooked it, but I don't appear to have the figures for post registration death certificate amendments at hand.
I'm sure google will help you

Singer from Right Said Fred. Anti vaxxers who got Covid badly enough to be admitted to hospital but said: “I’ve had a bit of Covid, it wasn’t too bad. I was a little breathless, I felt very tired.”

What an idiot - they didn’t give hospital beds to those who didn’t need it!

was he "begging for the vaccine from his death bed but sadly it was too late"?

So just so I'm clear, you're anti covid vax, but not a conspiracy theorist.

But you also believe Doctors were putting Covid on DC's even when it wasn't the most likely cause of death or linked to the death. That sounds an awful lot like a conspiracy.

Another reminder.

This is from the U.K. government Guidance for doctors completing medical certificates of cause of death in England and Wales in 2020.

“Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement”

End of life symptoms, for example broncho pneumonia which is mentioned on the majority of death certificates, would be very similar to those of C19. Therefore, it would not be unreasonable for a medic during a pandemic to assume C19 might be a contributing factor.

Let’s be honest too, there is absolutely nothing for any government to gain by revising causes of death - and quite a lot to lose if they admitted errors. Nothing sinister in this, just bad PR.

I’d also be interested where those who are accusing others of basing their facts on information from the internet and MSM are getting their own facts from and why they are so adamant the provenance is the most accurate. There’s bound to be some confirmation bias in any information gleaned.

The BBC is possibly the most reliable source for me personally, but even they have been proven to show bias and not be above sensationalist reporting on occasions.