Why is it not considered necessary to vaccinate now?

[Movinghouseatlast]

Possibly a stupid question.

I just read on another thread about how the vaccine helped people to catch it in a more ' manageable way'. But presumably the vaccines aren't still working , so what has changed?

I am 3 weeks into a horrendous bout of Covid. I really wish I could at at least have paid for a booster. There is no way I could have gone in to work, I have managed an hour or two some days. So surely the economy is going to be impacted if we all end up getting this ill a couple of times a year?

These are figures I genuinely haven’t come across before. Is there somewhere to read through them?

I'd also like a source for these figures.

And are they comparing like with like in terms of age and other conditions?

I.e. Are you saying that a vaccinated 50 year old with asthma is specifically more likely to be hospitalised than an unvaccinated 50 year old with asthma?

Or is it that the set of vaccinated people contains eg more 50-60 year olds with asthma and fewer 20-30 year olds without other conditions?

It was in the vaccine surveillance reports on gov.uk. I kept up with them for awhile.

I'm neutral on this so please don't come for me. I just remember reading it and being surprised it wasn't reported.

It also showed you were more likely to catch COVID if you were vaccinated.

@dragonpen

They split the data in to age groups and also had a column for deaths with comorbidities but it didn't drill down to specific conditions across age groups.

I don't know what it adds up to and I'm sure there are confounding factors on all sides. But it was adjusted for the proportions of vaccinated and unvaccinated.

couch I’m aware of my posting history - why would I hide it? I have for a very long time been sceptical of the approach to vaccinate everyone. It didn’t stack up. I have no doubt it’s a good idea if you are 90. If you are a healthy 20 year old, perhaps not. in respect of children, I was perturbed. I remain concerned by adverse effects and I’m not sure they do much to prevent infection as highlighted in previous posts

and yes I’m seeing lots of odd health issues but I’m just as worries that those are due to Covid itself. I also remain angry as hell that we aren’t doing more to find the origin of the actual virus and what it does to us longer term

Findings from the latest report of REACT-1, one of the country’s largest studies into COVID-19 infections in England, have been published by Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI.
Over 98,000 volunteers took part in the study in England to examine the levels of COVID-19 in the general population. The latest data show infections in England have increased fourfold from 0.15% to 0.63% since the last REACT-1 report.
Despite this increase, the findings indicate the spread of the virus was slowing and infection rates for double vaccinated people are three times lower than in unvaccinated.
Analysis by Imperial College suggests double vaccinated people are also less likely to pass on the virus to others.
The main findings from the thirteenth round of the REACT-1 study show:

• 527 positives from 98,233 swabs, giving a prevalence of 0.63% or 1 in 160 people;
• more than a four-fold rise in prevalence compared to the last full report increasing from 0.15% to 0.63;
• unvaccinated people were three times more likely than fully vaccinated people to test positive for COVID-19, with prevalence at 1.21% and 0.40%;
• double vaccinated people in the most recent round were estimated to have around 50 to 60% reduced risk of infection, including asymptomatic infection, compared to unvaccinated people;
• those who were fully vaccinated may be less likely to pass on the virus to others than those who have not received a vaccine;
• prevalence was highest in London at 0.94%, up from 0.13% in round 12, although this growth appeared to be slowing at the end the study period;
• during Round 13, the R number was estimated at 1.19, corresponding to a doubling time of 25 days;
• of the 254 positive samples sequenced for variants, 100% were the Delta variant, compared to 78.3% in the last report (round 12);
• a substantial increase in prevalence in all age groups under the age of 75;
• prevalence is nine-fold higher in 13-17 year-olds at 1.56% compared with 0.16% in round 12;
• 3.84% of double-vaccinated individuals who reported recent contact with a known COVID-19 case tested positive, compared to 7.23% of unvaccinated individuals; and
• when comparing the REACT infection data with official NHSE hospitalisation data, there has been a weakening in the relationship between infections and hospitalisations and deaths. There are signs of the relationship between infections and hospitalisations coming back together. More time is needed to understand what this means and to identify any trends.

The vaccination programme has been successful in weakening the link between infection, hospitalisation and deaths and data demonstrates the need to remain vigilant and follow government guidance, to ensure that we continue to reduce the risk.

@luckbealadytonight I’m not interested in ‘coming’ for you

I am interested in the source data (as far as I can understand it) because I also kept up with it to a point when the country was very reliant on the vaccines to open up properly.

cards on the table, I don’t know if you’ve understood what you read fully given how you’ve described it. There was a fair hubub created, loudly by those who had a motivation to discredit it - the type who are probably still referring to themselves as pure bloods - when the vaccines were still fairly new because most new cases were in the vaccinated, completely failing to take into account the growing number of vaccinated meant that statement was always going to be true despite the vaccine performing as it was meant to. There was/is no sense of perspective around medical and scientific results and anything other than uniform success of a vaccine in every individual was taken as proving why the whole thing was a complete failure.

I’m making the presumption that the data you’re referring to was probably a while ago, I’d probably take another look if I were you given that time had meant that a clearer picture has emerged.

like @Parker231 has posted, there are huge research projects monitoring Covid and the vaccines performance and they now have three years worth of vaccine data alongside four years of virus data to interpret and put into perspective.

Yes, it was awhile ago, late 2021 and early 2022 - I was interested as I was pregnant.

I could have read it wrong (although I don't think I did).

New research looks very conclusive!

@luckbealadytonight

Reflecting Cornettoninja, it isn't my intention to "come at you". I just have a genuine interest in the source.

It was more of a general plea! Not directed at anyone. The vaccine threads can get a bit angry.

Agreed, but the ramping up of vaccine disinfo (disseminated from people at the top of the anti-vaccine pyramid) is having catastrophic impacts on public health and society, people get frustrated and unfortunately this can sometimes be misdirected to those who are genuinely wanting informed debate or asking questions.

This is the case for "anti-science" (i.e., evidence based things) in general - it's highly politicised and damaging.

@luckbealadytonight

I agree with @pinkred

I think it’s good to question and have alternative viewpoints. But when it comes to public safety, an alternative question or view HAS to be backed up by robust, peer reviewed evidence.

IF there is an issue with vaccine safety then that needs to come from reliable, unbiased sources, it needs to be scrutinised - and if it has global backing then THAT becomes the new consensus.
And I’d say the same for any medical treatment. It’s safer to go with health guidelines and the global consensus - rather than fringe science or pseudoscience. It’s right to question whether something is right for you, and to choose - but I don’t think it’s right to then try and persuade others that ‘science is wrong’.

I think misinformation, often politicised, often for fame and profit can be very harmful. I think thats why people feel passionately about it. For example Mumsnet, just by its name and ethos - is a website for families. A pregnant woman may look for advice on the Covid threads and be linked to misinformation/anti vax sites. It’s safer for her to discuss her concerns with a GP rather than an unqualified poster on Mumsnet.