If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?

[AreYouVeryAnti]

You'd better be quick if you're healthy and under 50...

"The Telegraph understands the Government is also preparing to wind down the open offer of the first two doses over the coming months. The move will mean unvaccinated healthy under-50s will soon not be able to get a Covid jab unless one is recommended by a medical professional."

You are linking a commentary piece that has been laughed at by pretty much anyone with a basic understanding of scientific knowledge.

It is authored by a single person with no expertise in the area, who is quoting from a paper that when you read it, shows no such thing.

This thread is a mess.

Scientists have been evaluating vaccine safety using population level data for the past 3 years which includes comparisons to unvaccinated people.

A self selecting sample of people calling themselves "the control group" and talking about how great they feel, isn't research.

I don't say anywhere that I am an expert or scientist 😏 I'm using article as its the first thing that comes up regarding immune system impact on Google, in reply to an earlier poster stating that the vaccine has no impact. I think it does, based on the examples I see around me, in REAL LIFE.

This thread isn't "a mess" at all. But as usual, those who have always been in support of c19 jabs are completely intolerant and disrespectful of other people's views and decisions on the topic.

When a thread is filled with people throwing around claims that have no basis in evidence, then I personally think it's a mess

There's no benefit in using fake claims to scare people who have been vaccinated, or who would benefit from a seasonal booster like pregnant women.

. But as usual, those who have always been in support of c19 jabs are completely intolerant and disrespectful of other people's views and decisions on the topic.

I'm fully respectful of anyone's decision/opinions regarding vacccination, but am wholly not respectful of anti-vaccine disinformation on a parenting forum because it causes real harm.

@Miajk This is the typical response to anyone who was hesitant over the last 3 years. How sad that what has transpired over all this time has not made you accept people's choices over their own bodies. The gaslighting over the last 3 years has been quite horrific. In hindsight with new research that has come to light, many are glad they were not bullied pressured and ridiculed to make decisions out of some flawed, biased data of skewed efficacy. Throwing round 'anti-vaxxer slurs to belittle people is no longer acceptable. People have seen and felt the fallout from bowing to that pressure, and it has been heartbreaking countless times.

The statistics and outcomes should make you open your eyes to the facts, not the propaganda.

@FuzzyPinkTaco Too many people have now finally started to critically think for themselves and do some independent research. Now Science across the world is losing its fear to speak out, you will find many more think as you do. Statistics are showing you are correct. It's my experience too. We don't medicate for anything. That may make the difference, I don't know. Our family had covid for 2 days each but separately. That was it done. But we hardly ever have colds or coughs anyway. We treat it naturally. Statistics for those who have and those who haven't tell a very dire picture. At least we are now allowed to talk about it without being trolled to within an inch of our lives. Doctors whose accounts were suspended have had them reinstated as the information is now known not to have been false after all.

Time passing does amazing things for clarity. The truth will always find a way out eventually, no matter how much it's suppressed.

Absolutely not. Very happy with my decision not to have it or allow anyone in my family to have it.

The truth will always find a way out eventually, no matter how much it's suppressed.

There is literally no robust evidence demonstrating that offering vaccination to the general population was a mistake.

In fact, there is overwhelming evidence at just how effective vaccines were in preventing death and long term disability. The Uk got a lot wrong, but managing to get a significant proportion of people vaccinated before they got COVID was hugely beneficial.

I am respectful of vaccine hesitancy and people's personal opinions, but this absolute tsunami of disinformation is coming from anti-vaccine groups who profiting richly from causing harm and anxiety.

"Using fake claims to scare people" is not my intention at all. I don't think anyone is on this thread doing that 🤔

What I'm doing is sharing my "lived experience" with potentially like-minded individuals or those that have had a similar experience to mine on the topic. The question posed by the OP is for unvaccinated people after all....

Doctors whose accounts were suspended have had them reinstated as the information is now known not to have been false after all.

@TheHumanExperience

Well no, I'm assuming you're referring to twitter, where the take over by Elon Musk has led to him reinstating many far-right and troll accounts, which includes many of the "big names" in anti-vaccine grifting.

This isn's a comment on what they are saying, it's a comment on the ethics of who's now in charge.

I don't have the jab. Had no intention didn't. Recently found out in pregnant and now worrying about all the statistics about pregnant women catching Covid who are unvaccinated.

Your thoughts?

I've not had any of the covid vaccinations and ignore the invitations for the flu ones! I'm the only person in my family (ie kids, siblings, parents, in laws, nieces and nephews) not to be vaccinated and am the only one who hasn't had a really shitty virus at some point in the last three months despite mixing closely with them all coughing and spluttering over Christmas!
I'm glad people are able to get the vaccinations if it makes them feel safer but equally pleased to have the option of choice still.

It's recommended in pregnancy for both mum and baby.

You don't need to rush a decsion as this change won't impact you - pregnant women are still considered a priority group.

COVID-19 vaccines are strongly recommended in pregnancy. Vaccination is the best way to protect against the known risks of COVID-19 in pregnancy for both women and babies, including admission of the woman to intensive care and premature birth of the baby.

www.rcog.org.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-women-s-health/vaccination/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding-faqs/

@stayathomegardener

Control groups are meant to be unbiased. A self selecting group of vaccine sceptics can in no way be considered a control group

It's a no from me.

I did wonder if I changed my mind though I what would be the point of the first two doses after all this time.

When my cardiologist asked if I'd had the vaccine and I said no, her reply was 'good'.

I'd already decided to wait and see how it pans out. I'm so glad I did.

Esther McVey has now asked for a public investigation into excess deaths. Surely they can't ignore the harms much longer.

Would that be too long for a MN name change @pawprintseverywhere 🤔

I'm glad I didn't get it. Like me, a lot of the most notorious "paid anti-vix shills" all started out thinking anti vaxers were bonkers.

Remember that FB group Us For Them? I hardly ever use FB but joined it very early on when it was 100% about getting schools open in Scotland because it was absolutely fucking ridiculous that my pensioner granny and all her pals were merrily going to the bingo hall every week while my kids (who were at minuscule risk in comparison) still hadn't seen a classroom or got inside a chained up playpark. I forgot about being joined until a post popped up months later full of people refusing to get the vaccine and I remember thinking "WTF happened? These people are loons!"

Then I started noticing stuff like certain countries with concerns over blood clots halting the jabs for certain age groups and the UK gov, Astra Zen website (and huge amount of MN posters) rigidly saying "buuut there's a risk of blood clots from taking the pill!". You could not debate with these people. As someone who's had blood clots I knew this argument was completely disingenuous as they were not the same kind of blood clots at all and in fact much more serious. But they weren't telling the truth or being clear about the facts and it started to make me wonder what else they were being disingenuous about? How many times did we hear "it's exactly the same as the flu vaccine" when we all know that's not the truth at all.

At this point "notorious anti-vaxers" like Dr John Campbell, Dr Robert Malone, Dr Aseem Malhotra etc were all very pro-vaccine and taking them themselves. It was only slowly as more data was revealed over time that they backtracked.

Hence my reasoning that there really is no point "convincing people" or attempting to. Any hesitancy / refusal when it comes to this vaccine is laughed at, which is fair enough. I am happy with my decision though and glad that it's a bit more socially acceptable to say it these days.

a lot of the most notorious "paid anti-vix shills" all started out thinking anti vaxers were bonkers

No - a lot of people who use the anti-vaccine movement to profit were already contrarians who generally went againsnt evidence based medicine as a career.
Aseem Malhotra is a good example of this.

Others fell into the anti-vaccine industry by chance. John Campbell's accurate but boring education videos got very few hits. As soon as he started drifting into fake claims and conspiracy theories - instant fame, virality and attention. His channel is monetised, and he is actively incentivsed to produce more and more controversial content. He makes tens of thouands each month from his channel.

Remember that FB group Us For Them?

They're not a fb group, they're one of the most infamous and prolific anti-vaccine groups in the UK. Their fake claims about vaccines have caused immeasureable harm - including spreading disinformation that they cause COVID, cancer and prion disease.

They follow the usual pattern of making generous profits by promoting non-evidence based treatment regimes for "vaccine harms" and COVID which includes vastly marked up vitamins and drugs like ivermectin, and charging £££ for private consulations with their members.

@Hingey

It's recommended in pregnancy for both mum and baby.

You don't need to rush a decsion as this change won't impact you - pregnant women are still considered a priority group.

---

When I was pregnant with my daughter this was not the advice. In fact it was advised not to have the vaccine as they don't know the long term impacts of mother and baby - then they suddenly changed their minds?!!

F*ck no

Pregnant women were not included in trials, as is standard.

Any pregnant woman was able choose to have the vaccine after they were authorised for the general population. This tended to be those who were the highest risk (co-morbitity, HCPs), as the benefits outweighed theorestical risks. I know a lot of pregnant hospital doctors who were vaccinated in this time, for example.

Safety data was collected using women who chose to be vaccinated, which demonstrated safety and efficacy. We now have robust replicated evidence that it is safer to be vaccinated than unvaccinated in pregnancy, and that pregnant women are particularly vulnerable to COVID. Preterm birth is now an established consequence of infection, and risk is reduced by vaccination.

It isn't about anyone "changing their minds", it's about using the most to date evidence to inform policy.

So what are you doing in this thread then? Why people cannot have a dif opinion to yours?

As said before, I respect anyone's opinion or decision on vaccination.

That isn't the same thing as repeatedly posting misinformation which causes anxiety in people who have been vaccinated (see very recent thread) or scares people from being vaccinated who would benefit from a booster.

Misinformation helps no one, hence the replies to a thread that is full of it.

Er, what exactly?

OMG you can't actually believe that...... can you? If so what totally STUPID thinking! Why do you think so many people in China have Covid?? Because their vaccine was poor and not enough people got vaccinated

Yamamoto somehow managed to make a completely rookie error of not understanding confidence intervals. God knows how. The lancet study didn’t actually show what he’s claiming it showed. It showed that covid vaccines create an immune response (as expected) and that immune response wanes over time (not unexpected) so that 8 months after vaccination the immune cells they were looking for were at similar levels to someone unvaccinated IIRC.

It was the sort of unfortunate mistake that you’d expect a first year undergrad not to make.