If you didn't get the jab, would you consider having it now?

[AreYouVeryAnti]

You'd better be quick if you're healthy and under 50...

"The Telegraph understands the Government is also preparing to wind down the open offer of the first two doses over the coming months. The move will mean unvaccinated healthy under-50s will soon not be able to get a Covid jab unless one is recommended by a medical professional."

@CertainUncertain

Yes. You're right.

@HelpfulMonkey

Andrew Bridgen is another dodgy one though! I read about the sexual assault allegations that were “dropped”. I read her side of the story. And then there’s the lobbying/expense claims etc.

Not a credible source, he sounds far, far more corrupt than most politicians!

I agree, there were the holocaust comments too.

However I think best to focus on the fact that his claims about vaccines (repeated from Aseem Malhotra) have no basis in fact.

Someone can be a terrible person and still be right about something, and I fear you'll be buried under people claiming "but ad hominen" ;)

@sunglassesonthetable shame to see you have just come back with lots of insults, would still love to know what you were getting at last night?
Please could you just explain clearly?
Or is this going to be 'let it go' or 'I just don't want to', like you have done before?
That's fine but a bit strange when you are so demanding of answers from others...

As for the rest of the pile on, glad you are all in agreement and hope in future we can all stick to just facts and not personal attacks

Hello everyone, we've had a few reports about this thread being derailed so we’re just dropping in with a gentle reminder to please not derail threads. Posters who continually do so may have their accounts suspended which is something we would rather avoid.
Best wishes,
MNHQ

Facts not attacks 👍

Or rather - consensus science (as it’s more likely to be factual) not attacks 👍👍

Truth slowly coming out

www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2023/02/09/planet-normal-people-should-made-aware-link-covid-jab-heart/

"I do think there is some sort of link between heart problems and the jab," Sarah told the podcast.

This is already well established and well known? There must be 100+ research articles published now examining prevalence, potential mechanisms etc.

"And so I guess then you get to the question of whether the benefits are outweighing the risks," she said.
Quite, which is why every country assessed evidence and conducted their own risk:benefit analysis to decide who should be offered vaccination and when. This includes all health issues, not just cardiac.

"I think arguably for younger people, they probably aren't."
Most countries have come to the conclusion that with pretty much everyone having been exposed to COVID once, it is not worthwhile offering vaccination to younger or low risk people. Here we're not bothering with anyone under 50.

I'm just not sure why this podcast is being advertised as some kind of bombshell, or why you're presenting as "truth slowly coming out" @Elleviss Everything in it is widely known.

Because @henlee it's too late now as the horse has already bolted! And this was known from the start with certain doctors coming out and who were ridiculed and censored.so when she says people need to be made aware of the risks, well why now when most have had it? It's fucking cruel!

Also the article I read the other day was longer. She was saying basically the body can turn on itself. That is called a cykotine storm and it was another thing top docs who were censored warned about! This is why people who have had the jab are always sick.

It is destroying their natural immunity causing all sorts of diseases which need certain T cells to tight off.

Cytokine storm being a big issue with covid too. As are myocarditis, heart attacks and strokes. What’s the relative risk of these caused by the vaccine?

That is called a cykotine storm

Fgs, This is why you can't just wade into medical science after doing a couple hours "research" and start claiming things @Elleviss

Do you understand the molecular mechanisms underlying immunological cascades? Do you actually know what a cytokine storm is? Yes, some people can have a life threatening reaction to being vaccinated, or having an infection.

As has been explained what feels like millions of times, to you and other usernames, this isn't something that can strike suddenly out the blue months after being vaccinated.

@Elleviss

it's too late now as the horse has already bolted!

But it hasn't. There is literally no evidence to demonstrate it was a mistake to offer vaccination to the general population. Even in younger people (including young men), the risk benefit analysis shows it better outcomes for those vaccinated than those unvaccinated at that time.

Your post is just a rambling series of statements that don't offer any new insights to this.

Low risk people no longer have the option of being vaccinated. All these arguments serve to do is help those at the top of the anti-vaccine pyramid stay relevant and profit.

The issue is that there was no informed consent surely? Any medic who tried to flag up the heart issues was shut down and discredited immediately - we were told it was completely safe. I wonder how many people, had they known about the heart issues, would have gone on to be vaccinated?

There is a research With regards to post covid heart deseases

This is a pretty liberal rewriting of history.

When there was robust evidence vaccination was causally associated with carditis, this was added as a known side effect, and factored into risk:benefit analysis. Post-authorisation safety monitoring has been intensive and robust for the roll out.

The most up to date evidence shows that it was still beneficial to be vaccinated rather than remain vaccinated, even with this known side effect (and others).

There was tons of good quality research investigating cardiac side effects, which is how they were identified. There was not "censorship"

The. only people being "shut down" are those like McCullough, Malhotra etc who repeatedly make fake claims about the vaccines (in order to profit).

*When there was robust evidence vaccination was causally associated with carditis, this was added as a known side effect, and factored into risk:benefit analysis. Post-authorisation safety monitoring has been intensive and robust for the roll out.

The most up to date evidence shows that it was still beneficial to be vaccinated rather than remain vaccinated, even with this known side effect (and others).*

i do not understand how, on one hand, the argument is that heart conditions post jab are a "known side effect," while, on the other hand, when young, healthy people have developed these "known side effects," and question the "causation," it is vociferously shot down as pretty much anything but the jab. (i'm being careful to use your terminology.)

@bronzepig ⬆️

while, on the other hand, when young, healthy people have developed these "known side effects," and question the "causation," it is vociferously shot down as pretty much anything but the jab.

I think this demonstrates the echo chamber you find yourself in and where you get your information @peppathe3rd

Carditis is an established side effect. Clearly for this to be, people have to experience this as a side effect. A medical professional can establish whether someones carditis is likely to be due to vaccination (a temporal relationship is one of the key factors), although this can be diffificult to ascertain

There are great number of "big names" in the anti-vaccine circuit who claim all sorts of things that are not true. This has spilled over into people copying and pasting these claims onto social media and forums. It has also spilled over into people genuinely ascribing all sorts of things to vaccination when causation is unlikely.

Due to this, anonymous posts on MN can be met with suspicion, pariticularly when there's a specific pattern of posting.

You can see how anti-vaccine disinformation harms those who genuinely do have vaccine related side effects.

@bronzepig
please cite the news organisations that have linked these "known heart related side effects" with injured individuals.

I have no idea what you mean or want from a reply here @peppathe3rd You've also put something in quotes that I have not said, which is a little bizzare.

There are hundreds of research articles using various population level data that examine prevalence and incidence of carditis after vaccination which includes accessing health records where diagnostic codes are linked to vaccination. These are publicly available and you can read them if you want to.

People with vaccine related carditis are diagnosed and treated (if needed). I have a colleague who is one of these people.

You seem to be wanting there to be some huge coverup and conspiracy when there is none.

As I said, your thoughts seem to be shaped by the echo chamber you find yourself in.

In my world, if someone said they had a vaccine related side effect they're met with sympathy just as they would be if it was caused by anything else. Equally, I don't know anyone who illogically links health complaints to vaccination, or thinks their anecdotal experience should have policy implications.

I know 2 colleagues, fit and healthy men in their early 40s recently hospitalised with heart problems. I can't say it's definitely linked to the vaccine, but I won't be having it again even if it's offered.

@bronzepig

You've also put something in quotes that I have not said, which is a little bizzare.

"When there was robust evidence vaccination was causally associated with carditis, this was added as a known side effect." (your words)

"known heart related side effects" (the quote you find bizarre). i didn't find it necessary to include your entire phrase.

I have no idea what you mean or want from a reply here @peppathe3rd

you have suggested that i live in an echo chamber where this causal link is mysteriously covered up, but, in reality, heart issues have been a well known and well documented side effect from this particular vaccine that were made widely available to the public. moreover, you considered an earlier poster to be "liberally rewriting history," when they suggested that many people were not aware of these potential complications and were therefore denied informed consent.

so, what i am asking you for are the news organisations, physicians, medical professionals, policy makers, politicians, etc. that have successfully communicated these "known heart related side effects," to the population at large. since you claim it is conspiratorial to suggest this information was not made readily available and accessible, it should be very easy to cite the plethora of examples of how this information was presented openly to the public.

@peppathe3rd

so, what i am asking you for are the news organisations, physicians, medical professionals, policy makers, politicians, etc. that have successfully communicated these "known heart related side effects," to the population at large. since you claim it is conspiratorial to suggest this information was not made readily available and accessible, it should be very easy to cite the plethora of examples of how this information was presented openly to the public.

It isn't really clear what you're asking here, Peppa. Would you like examples where the media has linked the death or collapse, say, of an athlete or younger person to the vaccine? There's been a few of those lately.

BTW, the accepted grammar around quotation marks is to include the actual text of the quote - not words of your own. That's why the other poster was bemused.

@MeetPi

It isn't really clear what you're asking here, Peppa. Would you like examples where the media has linked the death or collapse, say, of an athlete or younger person to the vaccine? There's been a few of those lately.

sure! i'd love to see what you reference above. i feel that my question was abundantly clear, and i'm sure that @bronzepig will have no problem answering it, given the confidence of their assertions. nice of you to step in though to explain their bemusement over the liberties i took with punctuation.

Here's one regarding Damar Hamlin and Tucker Carlson/Fox News.

fortune.com/2023/01/05/damar-hamlin-heart-attack-vaccine-misinformation-fox-news-tucker-carlson/