Vaccine injury ( not anti- vax)

[ArseInTheCoOpWindow]

My first 2 were AZ. No problems.

Had Moderna booster last year. 1 week after became really weak and exhausted (really weak and exhausted too weak to do anything) 5-6 months to return to health

Had Pfeizer booster 2 weeks ago. After a week, became so weak l couldn’t walk, and ended up in A and E. Since then I’ve lost my sense of smell, blinding headaches, weak as a kitten.

So, it seems that both vaccines have triggered some response. DH says he’s heard about people getting Long Covid from vaccines. DS who’s a journalist on national press says he’s heard of it too but ‘no one cares as they won’t be open about it’

Theres a subreddit with 5000 members, and l have found various things on it. It’s nickname is Spike Disease as it’s to do with the protein spike.

Does anyone else know anything? (please no anti vaxxers, I’m struggling enough as it is)

I was also generally against vaccine mandates for the general population (not England's proposed version though - as it included an alternative of testing)

As has been posted before, the trouble is too many people posting about opposing mandates are also those who minimise COVID & generally make anti-vaccine" claims, so a lot of the nuance gets lost.

If we had a better handle on disinformation (specifically from large, orchestrated groups), there would be less vaccine hesitancy, and we would have been in a situation where many more would have chosen to be vaccinated thus making mandates unnecessary. This is more true of somewhere like France, than the UK though.

Unfortunately mandates lead to more disinformtion and hesitancy, so it's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle.

He’s not against the vaccine though - he supported the role out/supports vaccine accessibility in developing countries. I do understand the debate around mandates, but not a rejection of the science. He hasn’t rejected the science. He’s also not electable and his views there are not reflecting the views of Labour in general.

The far right is would be more about rejecting the science - or the aim of the science - a disregard of the needs of those vulnerable to Covid in order to support the needs of the ‘fittest’.

Exactly - it is about the nuance. If you are heaping vaccine mandates in with science denial, putting a huge focus on personal freedom over the needs of the most vulnerable in society, focussing on fringe science rather than the full science picture, spreading unproven claims about vaccine injury - you are going down a dangerous path - and are ripe fodder for those with extremist ideas.

I find the argument that mandates are needed because of “disinformation” astounding

mandates should never, never be introduced for any medical procedure, period (excuse the pun)

what is “disinformation”? Leaving aside the more extreme of covid not existing, much of what was banned as so called disinformation related to the efficacy of the vaccines in halting spread, the effect on health not otherwise considered - eg on periods and whether it was right to vaccinate young people at little risk themselves. All those have been challenged since and accepted facts now.

if it’s being suggested that we cannot have dissent to such material matters then that is serious censorship. If I hadn’t know the vaccine could bugger my periods, for example, I might have gone for it. I read on Twitter that it might and thank god I did. My friend is facing a hysterectomy as a result of her jabs (there is no proof of course!). I have no regrets.

I find the argument that mandates are needed because of “disinformation” astounding

That's entirely the opposite of what I said though, isn't it @BeethovenNinth ?!

Here's my post again:

"If we had a better handle on disinformation (specifically from large, orchestrated groups), there would be less vaccine hesitancy, and we would have been in a situation where many more would have chosen to be vaccinated thus making mandates unnecessary. This is more true of somewhere like France, than the UK though."

"Unfortunately mandates lead to more disinformtion and hesitancy, so it's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle."

As I've said too many times to count, I am against vaccines, for a variety of reasons.

Possibly the worst typo ever to make on this thread

I am against vaccine mandates

if it’s being suggested that we cannot have dissent to such material matters then that is serious censorship

Again - no one is suggesting this @BeethovenNinth

Large concerted efforts to promote disinformation (not just about vaccines) from groups that profit from it, is not the same thing as Dave posting on facebook he doesn't want to be vaccinated because of xyz.

From the Lancet comission looking at how coronavirus was handled globally - including all the mistakes that were made:

An additional and alarming aspect of the public response in many countries has been widespread vaccine hesitancy, encouraged by a hostile and coordinated anti-vaccine movement that has spread dangerous and false information about the health risks of vaccines and has campaigned against vaccine mandates. Anti-vaccine disinformation in the United States has been traced to well organised right-wing groups that use targeted social media.259 Global evidence suggests that vaccine hesitancy is highest among people with lower levels of formal education and with lower incomes, emphasising the need for more evidence-based health education and communication on preventive care and health maintenance in public schools and from government, trusted community leaders, and medical professionals, in addition to the regulation of anti-science messages on social media.

Note this is publication was authored by 30+ experts worldwide from various institutions, which has gone through several rounds of aggressive peer review which took months to complete (in contrast to say, Malhotra's commentary piece in which he was the sole author, published in his own journal, and got his mates to peer review).

Of course people have the right to voice their opinion & turn down vaccines if they don't want to - but this needs to be seperated from the very real issue of orchestrated profit-making disinformation @BeethovenNinth

I simply disagree. Labelling hesitant people as “anti vax” or “far right” or Putin sympathisers (?!) is simply unhelpful and a deliberate effort to undermine dissenters.

it seems very clear that many people with valid concerns were smeared. We see it on this thread

i know many unvaccinated people and it’s for a wide variety of thoughtful and personal reasons.

what is an “anti science message on social media”? What does that mean? Is that joe bloggs asking a year ago “does it really stop transmission”? How does Joe Bloggs feel now? Does he feel vindicated? Does he trust “science” even less?

I simply disagree. Labelling hesitant people as “anti vax” or “far right” or Putin sympathisers (?!) is simply unhelpful and a deliberate effort to undermine dissenters.

You seem to be completely missing the point @BeethovenNinth

No one is accusing any individual of those things. If someone doesn't want to be vaccinated, and whether that view is evidence based or not, is their business.

This is completely seperate to the deliberate dissemination of disinformation by large organised groups, often for profit, which is referenced in the Lancet publication linked.

Unfortunately whether you agree or not, these groups do often have far right links - doesn't mean that the people who get taken in by their fake claims do. This relationship has existed far before the current pandemic.

Labelling hesitant people as “anti vax” or “far right” or Putin sympathisers (?!)

Except no-one has done this @BeethovenNinth?

Also where did you get "putin sympathiser" from?! @BeethovenNinth

Although I did find it interesting how many of the anti-vaccine bot accounts immediately switched to anti-Ukraine claims, earlier this year.

The majority of the population have had the "vaccine". Between 80 and 90% of the population have had covid. We can argue semantics over the exact reduction of transmission the vaccine provides ( if any) but if it doesn't stop everyone getting covid it brings the greater good argument to an end. It is a personal health choice.. if we are going down to protect the NHS argument, then that's fine as long as the people preaching take exercise, eat well and don't drink/smoke. Even then it's a very weak argument. Deaths have reduced mainly due to Omicron replacing delta which is a milder variant and vaccine which is now up to jab number 6 in a country where over 8 in 10 have had covid isn't particularly impressive

@SusanYorkshire - Good points! Also, I think much of the blame for the poor perception of vaccines is actually not down to ' deliberate dissemination of misinformation' but more down to the unacceptable behaviour of the government and scientists themselves. They seriously damaged their own credibility with the way in which they trampled over issues such as informed consent by introducing Covid passes and mandates. The constant focus on silencing any other viewpoints and insisting on absolute consensus was also unsettling and made them seem untrustworthy. I think it's a shame as their intentions were no doubt good, but more honesty in the way they present data and more focus on education rather than browbeating everyone into submission would go a long, long way! When it comes to which governement people will be voting for @EmEllGee - I think it will be more down to which party is going to help the majority of people to put food on the table and heat in their homes rather than what their views on Covid response are. I therefore predict we are more likely to have a large swing to the left rather than the right. Let's hope so, anyway!

Meanwhile …

How are you getting on, Op, with your health issues for which you were seeking information and support? Hope you find the answers you need and glad to hear you have a good acupuncturist. Take care and hope you’re seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.

Still the same. Got cyber sickness now☹️Can’t look at screens without hurting my eyes.

Sorry to hear that, it’s a lot to deal with at once. I’ve come across others in this position also mentioning light sensitivity - will try to dredge up the info (bit of brain fog to cut through first!). Hope you get some respite, will let you know if I do remember anything helpful.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow you're as well managing your expectations on how much help you're actually going to get and indeed how much they realistically can do for you.

I had a bad reaction to/injury from a medication (not a vaccine) and had some symptoms in common with you and was intially dismissed and told it was all in my head, which was at the time very frustrating and upsetting but longer-term it's been for the best as about all they have in their arsenal is trying to quash your symptoms with a range of medications like SSRIs/SNRIs, amitryptaline, mirtazipine, gapapentin, quetiapine etc etc, with no particular evidence that they'll help and the obvious side effect issues.

I'm not saying don't pursue things as you do need the appriopriate tests to rule out anything serious or life-threatening that genuinely does need treatment, but I would suggest to anyone to think long and hard before going down a pathway of heavy-duty medications on the say-so of a GP while they cack-handedly attempt to treat what they don't particularly understand.

As you can probably tell, I don't have a huge amount of faith remaining in the medical establishment and envy people who still have the luxury of a belief in the wisdom of the experts, but neither am I sold on alternative treatments which seem to be largely an evidence-free money-making scam.

By searching the hashtag vaccineinjured on twitter, I've found at least 3 organisations for supporting people who are vaccine injured. They are run by people with vaccine injuries who are also trying to navigate the medical system and obtain help. It may be worth contacting these.

Thank you for your help.

I’ll look up Twitter. I’m already on anti depressants, so they can’t stick me in anymore!

Still struggling with lights, but thank you very much.

My fear is that depression feeds political extremism - as has happened throughout history.

”The poll, by Redfield & Wilton Strategies, measured support for various parties across the Red Wall seats that proved so crucial at the last general election. While Labour’s spectacular 61 per cent rating – compared to a Conservative score of just 21 per cent – was the top line, Reform bounced along in third place on 8 per cent, up five points and comfortably ahead of the Liberal Democrats.”

And when I read Reform UK’s Covid policy - it’s pretty much word for word same as the views expressed here.

If the spike protein stays local to the site injection, how do myocarditis or menstrual issue happen? is there anything else there that travels to other organs or what?

Has anyone explained that? It’s been almost 2 years, you’d think of they developed the vaccine in a few months, they would have ironed out the issues by now.

but like the religions of old, you can’t question anything without being branded heretic. 🙄

and any replies to question mouth word by word what they read in newspapers or hear on tv, without 2nd thought. Somehow ppl can hold 2 contradictory thoughts at the same time: myocarditis/ etc can happen but the vaccine stays local…

@popsickle555 would it be ok if I were to PM you?

@JosephFrancis this is exactly my experience. Could you tell me how you have dealt with it. I went to cardiologist. Now starting beta blockers. Feel air hunger, tiredness, palpitations like adrenalin rushes. Also pfizer. I thought it was thyroid.

Well yes it has been explained. While extremely rare, it would appear to be caused by the immune response of that particular individual not the actual spike protein. Without meaning to sound condescending, you are aware that vaccines provoke an immune response?