Thoughts on using facemasks again....as numbers rise

[Kcc73]

So....numbers of covid (along side other cold/flu viruses) and rising quickly.
I have had cold/sore throat/feeling fatigue - but not covid - after 7 days still can't shake it off. I am not that 'ill' and just getting on with what I have to do BUT my health generally not great and a) the thought of getting covid /or/and flu , plus all these more minor colds , and b) probably worse - the thought of my hubby or teens getting covid/flu (and they probably less careful/mindful re washing hands etc) and the impact of that alone! is beginning to get me in a spin (I suffer with chronic condition that doesn't make me cev but I have high fatigue and pains at best of times).

Yes, I do suffer with anxiety (but have reasons to justify) but as it becoming more evident that we heading into another wave, what is reasonable to do , looking at the measures we used in past - when it was kind of mandatory - that can do now?? I want , and have started wearing face mask in supermarkets . I want to ask my teens to wear facemask on public transport but because no one else, well few, are doing this, feel I can't impose this and don't want to pass on anxieties to them.

BUT I know as 'mum', that if (when) family get sick, it will fall to me to a lot more , which don't get me wrong, I do want and feel should do, - but my stance is let's try and do whatever we can to reduce likelihood or getting sick - or preparing for the worst. I am NOT going to be stopping life; but as we head into winter again I am getting worried. Hubby away for weekend with friends and now it's back to thinking 'oh expect he will bring back covid '.

So wish really there were some more mandatory mitigations tbh. I know a lot will shout me down about this. I don't think we should lockdown before anyone thinks then. Just we are a culture of 'followers' and when fold started wearing masks, it made others accept wearing ok, and when it no longer mandatory, if still wearing one you felt odd! Wondered if others starting to wear masks again or doing anything else? (apart from get vaccinated which for most won't be for a while; my appointment is late Oct as I have another health condition).

Long woffly message. Sorry!

Kc

[Kcc73]

@FamilyTreeBuilder

Sorry OP, as soon as you start linking INDEPENDENT SAGE IN BIG SHOUTY CAPITALS you've lost me.

Not my intention to be shouty.
Just all this pages and pages of opinion which I guess mumsnet is... People's opinions which we all entitled to.

Thought it might be useful to add some research based evidence.... But what was I thinking???!!!!! Silly erh?

So unlike me to get sarcastic... Just this mumsnet.... Which actually been avoiding after some outrageous posts /offensive... Feel its seems you just have to give as much. Ad you get.

Shame mumsnet can't be nicer and more respectful to each other. Almost worse than politicians at times.

[CoffeeWithCheese]

There were very few on here who were polite and respectful to those whose lives were made fucking hell last time masks were in-vogue.

As for the "what if your family member got cancer" emotional blackmail - my boss who was the one seeing me struggle through that fucking meeting in one and telling me to just take lots of drinks to get the damned thing off... has cancer and is in treatment for it - and is about as pro-mask as you can get... but also understands how they've dehumanised and demonised the sector of society who can't cope with them and, instead of on MN where any query or questioning is met with granny murder, takes the balanced view of both sides needing to be considered.

Exactly how many years and winters do you want to be clouded over under your wish for the Government to tell you what to do in terms of seeing your friends and living your life (and being able to have a job if you work in an affected industry) and even showing your face? Another two? Another five? The virus is not going away - it's now in the general pool of shit that goes around in one variety or another during the colder months. As a human race we can't even get fucking headline eliminated - why do we persist with the delusion that, with goodness and virtue we can conquer covid?!

And even the NHS trusts mandating masks have staff really really fucked off with it now - that session I was in that triggered the second-worst meltdown I've ever had (although as a woman hardwired to people please I melt down in the least inconvenient and invisible manner going obviously) had the farcical point where the communications team came to take a photo of us all for the project we're involved in - and we all had to troop off outside, remain fully masked (despite the fact most had had masks OFF inside as we were on a coffee break and there was cake around), and stand 1m apart (despite the fact we'd been sat together all morning) for the photo in the standard NHS "covid pose"... and we were all moaning and laughing about it being utterly fucking pointless - and there were some seriously senior people in that session. Even the photographer was taking the piss out of the rules he has to follow for these shots.

Tolerance even among the NHS angels for this nonsense is through the floor.

[RainStalksMyWashing]

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

Some NHS trusts are requiring masks (very glad to see that reported, expect it'll increase as people are beginning to notice that we have more cases this autumn than we did in the previous two years, and admissions are rising sharply, causing real difficulties in some areas.

Some European countries, such as Germany and Switzerland are reintroducing compulsory public measures - they are worried their health systems won't cope otherwise. These are countries with better-functioning health services and which provide Evusheld to their most vulnerable.

I'm not sure these governments or hospitals have health anxiety...

[PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior]

Indy SAGE's behaviour during the pandemic means they're not a neutral or widely respected group OP. They took a pro restriction attitude basically throughout, don't think they ever actually specified any point at which they wanted to leave lockdown, and also advocated for a 'circuit breaker' in December 2021. A lot of us simply do not trust them. If you want to persuade anyone, they're not going to do it.

Additionally, the fact that face masks can be useful when people are wearing good ones that are properly fitted does not in itself make mask laws a good idea. Are you still in favour of mandatory restrictions?

[VampiresWife]

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

Some NHS trusts are requiring masks (very glad to see that reported, expect it'll increase as people are beginning to notice that we have more cases this autumn than we did in the previous two years, and admissions are rising sharply, causing real difficulties in some areas.

Some European countries, such as Germany and Switzerland are reintroducing compulsory public measures - they are worried their health systems won't cope otherwise. These are countries with better-functioning health services and which provide Evusheld to their most vulnerable.

Are these countries in the midst of a spiralling cost of living crisis? Are people there being forced into 'warm banks' in order to keep warm this winter? Have their household bills risen by almost 200% in the past year?

They may be able to afford restrictions. The average UK worker cannot.

[PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior]

It remains to be seen whether these measures have any degree of success, but to that I'd also add that neither of these countries have had the experience of Partygate as we have.

[skyeisthelimit]

OP, I don't think that mandatory masks would work again as so many people didn't wear them anyway, but I think it's really a case of "you do you".

I haven't stopped wearing a mask in certain places, like the theatre or cinema , any area with lots of people, and I antibac my hands after touching high traffic areas like stair rails at the theatre etc.

I was a CEV shielder, but we weren't allowed the last booster, so it's now been 12 months since my last dose and the government say that it wears off after 6 months. I don't criticise anyone for not wearing one, but I don't expect abuse for wearing one either.

I had to pull out of a meal the other night , just 6 of us going, but 1 had covid and the others had been working with them all week. At least 2 of them are now ill (not tested though). I chose not to deliberately sit in a room with somebody that I know has covid.

I feel ill enough half the time due to health issues, so why on earth would I want to deliberately catch covid and throw that into the mix?

Wear your mask if it makes you feel better and don't worry about what anyone else says or does.

[VampiresWife]

@skyeisthelimit

OP, I don't think that mandatory masks would work again as so many people didn't wear them anyway, but I think it's really a case of "you do you".

I haven't stopped wearing a mask in certain places, like the theatre or cinema , any area with lots of people, and I antibac my hands after touching high traffic areas like stair rails at the theatre etc.

I was a CEV shielder, but we weren't allowed the last booster, so it's now been 12 months since my last dose and the government say that it wears off after 6 months. I don't criticise anyone for not wearing one, but I don't expect abuse for wearing one either.

I had to pull out of a meal the other night , just 6 of us going, but 1 had covid and the others had been working with them all week. At least 2 of them are now ill (not tested though). I chose not to deliberately sit in a room with somebody that I know has covid.

I feel ill enough half the time due to health issues, so why on earth would I want to deliberately catch covid and throw that into the mix?

Wear your mask if it makes you feel better and don't worry about what anyone else says or does.

I'd double check you're not eligible for boosters. Perhaps go into a vaccination centre and ask.

I'm CEV and have had six, three of which have been since March this year. DH and DD have also had boosters in the last couple of weeks by dint of the fact they live with me. I'm immunosuppressed by the drugs I take for my RA (the RA is also a risk factor).

If you were shielding I can't imagine why you haven't been allowed boosters - definitely go to a walk in vaccination centre and ask.

Good luck!

[MrsDanversGlidesAgain]

There are many people who are vulnerable to covid and their fellow citizens aren’t willing to wear a damn mask to mitigate covid spread

How many of my fellow citizens am I to be responsible for? my street? the borough? the county?

Wear a damn mask - aaah, the nostalgia.

[Overthebow]

@LovinglifeAF

There are many people who are vulnerable to covid and their fellow citizens aren’t willing to wear a damn mask to mitigate covid spread

you’re right, I’m not. I’ve had my jabs and I’ll stay home if I am sick. I’m not otherwise responsible for, nor do I care about, the health of random vulnerable people. And you can say it’s selfish all you like. I still won’t care. 2.5 years of the general public being in thrall fbi this utter crap is long enough.

This. Not my responsibility, I’m concentrating on my own family now.

[RoseAndRose]

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

There are many people who are vulnerable to covid and their fellow citizens aren’t willing to wear a damn mask to mitigate covid spread

How many of my fellow citizens am I to be responsible for? my street? the borough? the county?

Wear a damn mask - aaah, the nostalgia.

For everyone.

That's the crux of it being public health.

[Redfrangipani]

“How many of my fellow citizens am I to be responsible for? my street? the borough? the county?“

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain

Theres this: “A nation is only as rich as its poorest citizen and as healthy as it’s sickest one.”

Any member of a nation of people are responsible for the sickest. It’s a combined effort.

[GoldenOmber]

We absolutely should be responsible for our fellow citizens. But we don’t, in other areas of life, decide what to do by only asking “will this benefit other people?”

One example: one of the biggest factors in growing antibiotic resistance, and one of the biggest threats as a source of future pandemic flu, is intensive animal farming. Antibiotic resistance and pandemic flu have the potential to be much nastier than covid, and would hit the most vulnerable hardest.

For most people it wouldn’t be that hard to give up on farmed meat, it would just be a bit of an inconvenience. But we wouldn’t usually call people selfish and uncaring of their fellow citizens for buying a Tesco chicken.

[WahineToa]

I also have health anxiety after years of illnesses. I genuinely recommend you have therapy. It will do more for you than a mask. It’s helped me so much. I really really urge you to consider it. It’s not normal or healthy to worry this much but sadly after 2 years of intentionally making us scared, many of us are thinking and worrying far too much to have happy healthy lives. Forget worrying about covid, and start thinking about treating your anxiety. I had covid one week before the first lockdown and then earlier this year. I have no logical reason to have ever worried so much about it and I wish I hadn’t. It’s such a huge weight lifted having now resolved that.

[skyeisthelimit]

VampiresWife they changed the criteria for the last booster, so only over 75 and very specific illnesses got the last round of jabs. My dad, my brother and myself who were all CEV shielders the first time round, didn't qualify for the last jab as our illnesses were not on the list, however we do all qualify for this latest one and are booked in next week.

We did check with the NHS, my dad especially as he has COPD but the illnesses just didn't qualify us.

[RafaistheKingofClay]

@VampiresWife

Are these countries in the midst of a spiralling cost of living crisis? Are people there being forced into 'warm banks' in order to keep warm this winter? Have their household bills risen by almost 200% in the past year?

They may be able to afford restrictions. The average UK worker cannot.

It’s almost like there’s a link between a government that gives a fuck about its people and tries to protect them from a cost of living crisis and one that cares about its people and tries to protect them from a novel disease with known long term effects.

iSAGE are pretty well respected amongst experts. Just because you don’t agree with them as a non-expert doesn’t necessarily make them wrong or not respected.

[VampiresWife]

@RafaistheKingofClay

It’s almost like there’s a link between a government that gives a fuck about its people and tries to protect them from a cost of living crisis and one that cares about its people and tries to protect them from a novel disease with known long term effects.

iSAGE are pretty well respected amongst experts. Just because you don’t agree with them as a non-expert doesn’t necessarily make them wrong or not respected.

I didn't mention iSAGE.

And I agree that our government doesn't give a shit about us.

Fact remains that the average UK worker in fields such as hospitality, or on zero hour contracts, absolutely cannot afford lockdown. Even if furlough were in place - and can you really imagine Truss and Kwarteng going for that? - that's still only 80% of your salary. In real terms that's not going to touch the sides compared to what it paid for two and a half years ago.

[MrsDanversGlidesAgain]

Theres this: “A nation is only as rich as its poorest citizen and as healthy as it’s sickest one.”

Any member of a nation of people are responsible for the sickest. It’s a combined effort

In that case I'd like some of the richer members of the community to start taking some responsibility for me not having as much money as I'd like and amending that situation. BTW, do you have a source for that quote?

[WahineToa]

Any member of a nation of people are responsible for the sickest. It’s a combined effort

what a load of crap!! That’s not how society actually is. Especially when the majority of the top 10 causes of disease and poor health are entirely preventable. I’m not responsible for those that don’t look after themselves. They clearly don’t care that they clog up the NHS and burden the rest of us. When obesity is a leading factor in how sick you get from covid, I don’t think my wearing a mask despite surviving covid twice and being at no risk of serious illness, is a reasonable request or will have any bearing on anyone else.

[WahineToa]

FFP2 and FFP3 absolutely work

my mum wore them in nz, so did everyone around her, still got covid.

[chantico]

Any member of a nation of people are responsible for the sickest. It’s a combined effort

Completely agree.

Those who are disproportionately affected by covid are those who are poor, BAME, who have certain medical conditions or who are elderly.

Do we actually want a society that marginalises those groups even further?

[WahineToa]

Those are the groups most affected by the negative effects of lockdown. They were also in those occupations that kept going during the most dangerous times while all the middle class lockdown enthusiasts sat at home banging on about everyone wearing masks.

[LadyApplejack]

@chantico

Any member of a nation of people are responsible for the sickest. It’s a combined effort

Completely agree.

Those who are disproportionately affected by covid are those who are poor, BAME, who have certain medical conditions or who are elderly.

Do we actually want a society that marginalises those groups even further?

If Covid disproportionately affects those groups, blame Covid. It isn't society marginalizing anyone. Lockdown and restrictions also impact some groups more than others. Everything has a consequence and what's best will depend on who you ask. People are entitled to act in their best interests. Fed up of this blame culture. It's a virus.

[WahineToa]

@LadyApplejack agreed. It’s selective moralising anyway

[VampiresWife]

@WahineToa

Those are the groups most affected by the negative effects of lockdown. They were also in those occupations that kept going during the most dangerous times while all the middle class lockdown enthusiasts sat at home banging on about everyone wearing masks.

Exactly. Nobody seemed to mind that the people from those demographics were the ones working in busy unventilated fulfilment centres and warehouses, where it was impossible to socially distance. I found it staggering that posters painted themselves as so saintly for having all their groceries, garden furniture and other lockdown 'essentials' delivered with absolutely no thought for the people who had to deliver them. And if people in these jobs caught covid, as they did in droves, their contracts didn't allow for paid leave.

Passing in perceived risk to those who can least afford to take your risks for you didn't make you a lockdown hero. Quite the opposite.

Also @chantico as someone who is CEV but also mask exempt, I'd like to point out that like many unable to wear a mask I absolutely did feel 'marginalised' when masks were mandatory, as were many in my situation. We were told to stay home if you can't wear one, called vile names, shouted at, physically attacked in some cases... People weren't too concerned about our disabilities and health conditions then, were they. It seemed as if some disabilities/vulnerabilities were worth standing up for, but only if it didn't negatively affect others (as it was perceived). When masks were mandatory I genuinely feared leaving the house because almost every time I did I received abuse.