Thoughts on using facemasks again....as numbers rise

[Kcc73]

So....numbers of covid (along side other cold/flu viruses) and rising quickly.
I have had cold/sore throat/feeling fatigue - but not covid - after 7 days still can't shake it off. I am not that 'ill' and just getting on with what I have to do BUT my health generally not great and a) the thought of getting covid /or/and flu , plus all these more minor colds , and b) probably worse - the thought of my hubby or teens getting covid/flu (and they probably less careful/mindful re washing hands etc) and the impact of that alone! is beginning to get me in a spin (I suffer with chronic condition that doesn't make me cev but I have high fatigue and pains at best of times).

Yes, I do suffer with anxiety (but have reasons to justify) but as it becoming more evident that we heading into another wave, what is reasonable to do , looking at the measures we used in past - when it was kind of mandatory - that can do now?? I want , and have started wearing face mask in supermarkets . I want to ask my teens to wear facemask on public transport but because no one else, well few, are doing this, feel I can't impose this and don't want to pass on anxieties to them.

BUT I know as 'mum', that if (when) family get sick, it will fall to me to a lot more , which don't get me wrong, I do want and feel should do, - but my stance is let's try and do whatever we can to reduce likelihood or getting sick - or preparing for the worst. I am NOT going to be stopping life; but as we head into winter again I am getting worried. Hubby away for weekend with friends and now it's back to thinking 'oh expect he will bring back covid '.

So wish really there were some more mandatory mitigations tbh. I know a lot will shout me down about this. I don't think we should lockdown before anyone thinks then. Just we are a culture of 'followers' and when fold started wearing masks, it made others accept wearing ok, and when it no longer mandatory, if still wearing one you felt odd! Wondered if others starting to wear masks again or doing anything else? (apart from get vaccinated which for most won't be for a while; my appointment is late Oct as I have another health condition).

Long woffly message. Sorry!

Kc

I do not want my DC wearing masks at school again.

Why not? I think if the infection starts to rip through school again, I think that's not a bad idea.
I'd rather have my dc attend school rather than not. Kids don't get ill by wearing masks, but virus will make kids ill.

@VampiresWife

If people wish to wear masks, that's great, crack on. But insisting that everyone does, or that they be made mandatory once more - no. Also attacking those who can't wear them - no.

So you'd like everyone to cater to your disability, but you don't have much patience for that of other people? That makes sense.

By looking at the full range of international evidence, contextualised regionally to look at overall progression of all stages of the pandemic waves; not just raw data in selected months from one country.

The full range of international evidence at all stages of the pandemic means using data about mask use from earlier, less contagious strains of the pandemic rather than the real world experiences of Omicron. This is the wrong approach, because Omicron variants are so much more contagious. Although it does mean you get to downplay the known failure of any restriction shy of full lockdown to control Omicron when it had already been well seeded, so I can see why you find it an attractive proposition.

Talking of regional contextualisation, failure to do that here when we've had a very specific experience of our UK national leaders having been shown to ignore restrictions, lie about it multiple times, have the truth come out in dribs and drabs over months, have an enquiry and then police investigations many in the public felt were politicised and toothless, key government members fined and nobody ever resigning over it other than the person who laughed at it for the joke it was... not even considering the impact of all this is bad public health.

The public attitude is infinitely more important than your value judgement on what you think is reasonable to ask. You're entitled to your opinion, but most of us have no influence beyond our immediate circles. What actually matters is what the population OP is talking about would think and how they would respond. This, like all public health policy, requires understanding the experiences and views of the people involved. At this stage in the pandemic it has to deal with fatigue, and it's also got to consider the events of Partygate too. The fact that you don't even address that at all is a significant flaw.

I agree, Govts around the world are doing the popular thing - they want to stay in power - it’s short term power and accruing individual wealth before they are voted out. There seems to be little regard for the greater, long term good.

Okay, but if you believe this, then you surely can’t also believe that most people would be absolutely fine and happy with more ‘mitigations’ like masks if only governments would be honest with them about how bad covid is. Either we’re selfish hordes who prevent government from doing the right thing because we don’t want to, or we would do it but government is deceiving us into not wanting to.

This I think is one of the biggest issues with this approach to ‘the greater good’ that flip-flops between berating the general population for being selfish, and berating the government (whichever government, any government, just the general principle of government) for not doing more to protect them. Whichever view of the public you settle on at any given moment, you are still viewing the people you share a society with as units to be managed/viral vectors/potential victims of infection, rather than full human beings just like you who have their own lives and wishes and value judgements.

The reason most people aren’t still voluntarily wearing masks everywhere isn’t because the government has lied to them, but because their cost/benefit judgement is not the one you think it should be. Putting up posters saying “Covid is still out there!” won’t do much to change the behaviour of people who think “I know it’s still out there, and I’d still rather catch it every year for the rest of my life rather than faff with masks every day.”

I’m done with them, haven’t wore one since last year sometime. I couldn’t give the shiniest of shits if it becomes law again to wear them in some settings, it’s unenforceable, anyway.

My DD has to wear them now, every ward in her vascular area is riddled with CV, patient op's cancelled and staff off ill, so its refreshing to know selfish idiots wont at least try to reduce infections because its "unenforceable"

Give yourself a pat on the back, you rebel you!

Okay, but if you believe this, then you surely can’t also believe that most people would be absolutely fine and happy with more ‘mitigations’ like masks if only governments would be honest with them about how bad covid is.

Yes, exactly.

If governments aren't more actively communicating pro mask messages or passing mandate laws because they know it will make them unpopular, that could only mean that the public wouldn't like it. They don't buy in. You need buy in for measures like masks or they can't work.

If you're saying governments don't do these things because of how the public will respond, you're actually acknowledging as fact one of the key arguments against mask laws in public spaces.

Resorting to insults tells me all I need to know about you.

And unless there is a medical reason why you cannot wear a mask at all, then you argument boils down to "my wish to be unmasked all journey on the bass that I might want to eat or drink at some point" or "I haven't followed any of the antifog advice for masked spectacle wearers, not am I willing to put on a mask as soon as inside and the bit I do not cope with well is over"

As I said, I am someone who has to use public transport due to a disability. I am, surely, one is the people you are trying to protect with this? And yet the minute I presented any reasons for why your suggestion for protecting me is somewhat sub-optimal to me, you went straight to “oh you’re just selfish.”

Also: honestly, think a minute. I am telling you that I have had to wear masks on public transport for two years, I am telling you I find this difficult for various reasons and have struggled with it. And you assume that I just couldn’t have been bothered to try ‘the antifog advice for masked spectacle wearers’? Rather than think “hmm, surely any reasonable person would have tried that by now, maybe it’s not as great a solution as I’d like it to be”? - Again, I am one of the people you apparently want to protect, and you can’t actually view me as a thinking being like you. This is not a great start to a public health campaign relying on winning people over, is it?)

(PS: I support lower speed limits in built up areas, based on the evidence of scale of injury relative to speed of vehicle (such as the newer 20 mph zones, mainly found round schools) Do you have links to any papers making the case for 5mph?)

Sorry, are you really saying you need scientific to convince you that vehicles travelling slower cause less damage in a collision than vehicles travelling faster? A basic early-secondary-school level physics textbook would do that.

Of course, driving at 5mph anywhere would reduce injuries and make it safer and easier for pedestrians. The reason we do not do it is because the cost outweighs that benefit, not because we’re pretending we don’t understand how physics works.

I’ve never stopped wearing a mask on crowded public transport and similar crowded places. Numbers of Covid infections fluctuate, but they’ve not been negligible at any point over the last two and a half years.

“I know it’s still out there, and I’d still rather catch it every year for the rest of my life rather than faff with masks every day.”

This is pretty much where I am with it all. Cost/benefit analysis. The possibility of avoiding covid is not worth wearing masks for.

Except that with several waves every year, you’re likely to catch it more often than once a year. Esp as no one is taking any precautions anymore.

Can I ask, in your risk assessment, cost vs benefit, did you take into account the risk of stroke, heart attack, dementia, cognitive issues, long covid etc?
I mean LC affects about 1 in 5 people (some say 1 in 10) regardless of whether covid was severe or mild.
And of course we have no idea of the long term effect of covid on our health. I’m thinking MS that we now know is linked to a virus, just like cervical cancer is etc…. I can’t help wi der what the impact will be with covid and esp repeated infections.

So your happy that your kids are breathing in microplastic fibres while wearing blown polypropelene masks all day?

I bet you can't wait for the day they come home and announce they have taken up smoking.

I never insulted you, i just think that people who wont wear a mask in "some settings" are idiots.

I was specifically referring to a Hospital setting, where you wouldn't give "the shiniest of shits" what the law or guidance is.

So you don't care about extremely ill people or the staff that look after them.

Your mistake @JudithHarper is responding to anyone who uses language like "ripping through". So 2020.

And no, @AsterixInEngland, I don't live my life in fear of developing X, Y or Z after covid or flu or strep throat. Who wants to live like that, permanently living in fear and mitigating against worst case scenario?

Anyway at this stage it's fairly clear masks will not be making a compulsory return and those who wish to do so can wear them if they want, but cannot compel the rest of us to do likewise.

I have not said that it should be mandatory. But I think it would be a sensible precaution on public transport and in supermarkets. I actually do think masks help to reduce covid/flu/colds transmission, common sense says that they are not pointless. But the more people wear them the better, it doesn't really work if you only have 2 people in a train carriage wearing one (unless it's FFP2 and above).

How am I asking people to cater to my disability? And in what way do I not have patience with others' disabilities?

That makes no sense at all.

How utterly depressing that after two and a half years people are still branding others 'selfish', using emotive phrases such as 'ripping through' and insulting people who disagree with them.

Unless a truly devastating strain pops up, mandatory masks/mitigations will not be returning. Arguing over the rights and wrongs of this is pointless. If you want to wear a mask, go ahead. If others don't - or can't - it's not up to you to judge them, just as it's nobody's right to judge you for wearing one.

CEV people have been dealt a shit hand all the way through this, so rather than arguing over why people aren't wearing masks on buses, use your time to write to your MP and campaign for Evushield in the UK. That would be the single most effective step forward for CEV people. Much more effective than telling people who can't wear masks how selfish they are.

I've no objection to people saying what they think would be good and accepting it shouldn't be compulsory, it's just not what the thread is about. If you think it's a good idea, go for it. Although 'common sense' is a rather abused term when it comes to covid!

But that’s me you’re talking about, isn’t it? Because I’m done with them, for good. Just own what you mean, why don’t you?

But that’s me you’re talking about, isn’t it? Because I’m done with them, for good. Just own what you mean, why don’t you?

southeastdweller. I’m not the poster you are responding to here, but I am interested in this. You say you are done with them for good. My doctors’ surgery won’t let you in without a mask on (and (sanitising your hands). The doctors, nurses and staff are all wearing masks. Are you willing to walk away and not have your health seen to if you rock up for a health appointment and find the same rules as in my doctors surgery, or will you find you are not so done after all? I’m just wondering really how done you are?

I’ll ‘worry’ about that in some unlikely situation when I have to move and go to another GP surgery. Nobody says anything to be when I go in now to my current one, without a face covering, or to other patients who don’t wear one.

Yep I really am done and hopefully that’s clear.

@VampiresWife

How am I asking people to cater to my disability? And in what way do I not have patience with others' disabilities?

Like so - by asking to not be attacked for wearing a mask. (And I agree it's perfectly fine to not wear one if you have a disability, BTW.) But when it comes to other mitigations - those equally as helpful to ECV people - you're not as keen. I don't recall anyone on this thread calling non-maskers selfish?

I'm not asking anyone to 'cater to my disability' by asking that those who are exempt are not attacked. And the S word has been used umpteen times on this thread.