Has anyone seen the 1,000 peer reviewed medical papers about vaccine injuries.

[sassandfaff]

community.covidvaccineinjuries.com/compilation-peer-reviewed-medical-papers-of-covid-vaccine-injuries/

Would this influence anyone from getting the next booster?

@BerriesOnTop

Across a population the vaccine has very little risk. That was my point. And that has been demonstrated in real life.

And yes as far as 'chasing herd immunity' - Thank you vaccine.

The cardiac risk of the disease in young men is significantly higher than that of the vaccine.

Never confuse the concept that it's among the most common major side effects (especially in young men) with a comparison of likelihood of complications of the disease.

If you want your young men to avoid cardiac complications, they are less likely to get them from the vaccine than from the disease

@BerriesOnTop - Has it ever occurred to you that your covid symptoms were more mild because you’d had a vaccine so already had anti-bodies?

During an unprecedented pandemic with a novel disease it’s not really possible to come up with any sort of personalised risk profile for each member of the population. We’d still be working it out meanwhile millions in the UK alone would have died. They did their best by prioritising the groups they thought were most at risk. However it’s a novel disease and the effect on individual people can be seemingly random with a young healthy person dying when against all odds a 96 year old with COPD gets better. All they can do is look at a population level, which they’ve done.

I feel really sorry for people who have worked for years and years on vaccine technology, whose work has saved millions possibly billions this pandemic to have to listen to the ungrateful naysayers who think they know better because they did some Googling.

This particular vaccine cannot give us herd immunity, that’s the point.

This hasn’t really been established yet. But the signal from the vaccine is there and we should proceed with caution in groups that have less Covid risk

Risks are not evenly spread in the population though. Young men in particular might have higher risks from the vaccine rather than Covid. You wouldn’t see this effect from looking at the population as a whole

This would be studied. Demographic split is basic recording. How do you think the particular risk to young people from one vaccine was discovered.

Unless you are trying to say that routine childhood vaccines have always had negative consequences for a small number of children, which we have all denied … until it’s useful not to deny it?

it’s never been denied, the studies are there. It’s more the public have not done their research into other vaccines.

covid vaccines are not that much different to any other. All this discussion is purely because of public attention and too much uneducated googling

The covid vaccine saved so many lives. You had a novel virus tearing through a population with no antibodies. The vaccine slowed it down and kept people out of hospital/dying. It may not provide herd immunity for life like a measles vaccine but the fast and wide rollout means that currently 95% of the UK population has covid antibodies and so hopefully with targeted boosters each year we can now live normal lives again. Measles etc has been studied for 100s of years, to get to this stage with a new virus in 2 is incredible.

Should we get rid of the flu jab as it doesn’t provide herd immunity too? It gives you a better chance of not being seriously ill with flu and hopefully making sure the NHS is available to all who need it this winter. Likely same as the covid booster will be each year for those that want it.

Has it ever occurred to you that your covid symptoms were more mild because you’d had a vaccine so already had anti-bodies?

it was more than a year out, no boosters so no, I really don’t think so (or else why get a booster in the first place? Or are boosters not needed for adults?)

However it’s a novel disease and the effect on individual people can be seemingly random with a young healthy person dying when against all odds a 96 year old with COPD gets better. All they can do is look at a population level, which they’ve done

Garbage. We all know the stats on who gets severe effects from Covid and it’s definitely the 96 year old with multiple health conditions. Outliers are just that. Outliers.

I feel really sorry for people who have worked for years and years on vaccine technology, whose work has saved millions possibly billions this pandemic to have to listen to the ungrateful naysayers who think they know better because they did some Googling

I have never been an anti-vaxxer but this vaccine has definitely soured people to OTHER vaccines cause which is a huge problem. Iirc there was a problem with a dengue vaccine in the Philippines which soured locals on all vaccines … you can guess that measles ran rampant and killed kids. All because of a lack of caution introducing a new vaccine.

@BerriesOnTop Booster, clue is in the name there, it boosts the immunity you already have.

My point was they are outliers. You are focusing on outliers from vaccine side effects and expecting personalised plans for everyone. I’m saying that’s pointless as they can’t know on an individual level, they can only guess at broad risk levels which they did with prioritising certain groups.

This vaccine went through all the necessary hoops a vaccine in the UK can go through, it wasn’t rushed, it just had all the time waiting or applying for funding removed and got prioritised in front of other trials. What has “soured” it is people spreading misinformation and not understanding risk factors on a population wide level.

This particular vaccine cannot give us herd immunity, that’s the point.

Maybe thats the incorrect term, but it certainly feels a bit like herd immunity compared to pre vaccine.

I have never been an anti-vaxxer but this vaccine has definitely soured people to OTHER vaccines cause which is a huge problem. Iirc there was a problem with a dengue vaccine in the Philippines which soured locals on all vaccines … you can guess that measles ran rampant and killed kids. All because of a lack of caution introducing a new vaccine.

Lack of caution = No. Internet google experts.
Misinformation spreads so quickly.

If a virus is so deadly, how come some vaccinated people in a household were infected and other non vaccinated were not. What about ‘terrain theory’ instead of ‘germ theory’? Just throwing it out for discussion. The more I read about terrain theory, the more it makes sense.

Yawn. Does anyone know how or when we can book the 4th booster for over 50s, no medical conditions?

I think your GP surgery just contacts you when it is time for you to book, similar to the flu jab

If a virus is so deadly, how come some vaccinated people in a household were infected and other non vaccinated were not. What about ‘terrain theory’ instead of ‘germ theory’? Just throwing it out for discussion. The more I read about terrain theory, the more it makes sense.

CBA

@Ohtsd I hope so, I am waiting to hear about mine (under 50 but asthmatic) but I am not sure which order they are doing the groups this time.

@sunglassesonthetable - don’t worry, you have a rest, all the disproving of terrain theory has already been done for you, about 200 years ago.

it was more than a year out, no boosters so no, I really don’t think so (or else why get a booster in the first place? Or are boosters not needed for adults?)

ffs.

some people will seroconvert permanently. Will be forever immune with only one jab. The second jab is to catch those that don’t have a response to the first. The booster will catch those who have reverted. Other boosters, like the flu yearly vaccinations, will cover new mutations.

it’s safer, less invasive and more cost effective to give everyone all the jabs, rather than piss around antibody testing everyone every 3 months.

so yes, there’s a strong chance your vaccination may still be effective for the rest of your life.

again, lack of understanding.

Are all over 50s getting the flu jab too this year? I don't think my GP ever contacted me for the first three, I just booked on the UK.gov site when it would let me. Only my CEV DP got directly contacted by them I think.

Does make me laugh how the antivaxxers have had to adapt and move on now that we all didn't die. The rare side effects of blood clot issue from AZ and the mild myocarditis from the pFizer vaccine just weren't cutting it so now they've started trying to find instances of adult sudden death syndrome/heart attack and anecdotally trying to link that to the fact that they may have had a vaccine at some point. As soon as a celebrity death is announced on twitter it starts. I saw posts hinting at both Ann Heche and Darius Danesh's deaths being due to 'vaccine injury'! When the actual real reason comes out (car accident, drug overdose) they go strangely quiet...

@Sonnex - as science has to adapt and respond to the new information it is presented with, as does anti-science. It’s only fair

True 🤣

don’t worry, you have a rest, all the disproving of terrain theory has already been done for you, about 200 years ago.

Never heard about 'terrain theory'. 😁 Googled it and though I'm probably clearly not a scientist, straight of the bat I can see how it looks dodgy.

It's exhausting how "a little bit of knowledge" and I'd put 'google knowledge " in that camp, is so persuasive. Or as my mother would say - dangerous.

Interesting piece on terrain theory (which is germ theory denial under an intruiging name)

theconversation.com/germ-theory-denialism-is-alive-and-well-and-taking-the-nuance-out-of-scientific-debate-163408

Because it's not "so deadly"

It's a very infectious novel virus running rampant through what was an immune naive populations. The numbers involved made it a problem, not so much the mortality rate.

For your second point - because vaccintion does not prevent 100% of infections. If you look at large sets of data, you'll see that vaccinated people get infected less, have milder symptoms et etc

The trouble is "anti-vaxxers" will just pull out the anecdotes of people they've heard about (often 2nd/3rd hand) to make their theories fit.

it’s safer, less invasive and more cost effective to give everyone all the jabs, rather than piss around antibody testing everyone every 3 months

Or, you know, have a doctor sit down and discuss the pros and cons of boosters for under 50s. Individualised medicine is hard for the NHS, I know ….

On the other hand, in the UK this isn’t such an issue as nobody is forced to get a booster to access anything but this isn’t the case in the US where healthy young males, for example, are forced to get a booster to attend college. So it’s a bigger deal there and that’s why there’s a lot of panicked discourse over it and weird late-night posts from Americans.