Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

@EmmaH2022 Further vaccinations are being offered to people having cancer treatment. Also to people who have serious autoimmune conditions requiring treatments such as TNF-receptors.

My government always said that vaccines reduce transmission. They've never at any point claimed they prevented it.

All of the messaging put out by governments etc. at the time explicitly said that the vaccines prevent transmission. There is some rather amusing backtracking going on on this board where posters are saying 'well, if you can't get the virus, you can't transmit it, which is the same thing', which could politely be called disingenuous but looks very, very silly and grasping at any straws available to keep the good ship jab afloat.

I don't really find any of it amusing tbh!

Yes of course BJ et al put a huge amount of spin on vaccines and how impactful they'd be (ignoring what his scientific advisors told him)

But you seem to be crying out for some kind of revolution when yes not being infected means transmission is reduced, and yes there was evidence that a vaccinated person with a breakthrough infection is less infectious.

Flu vaccines are mandated for certain healthcare roles for exactly this reason - it's a numbers game, and reducing even a small proportion of transmission translates to a much lower number of cases in real time.

Maybe you feel tricked, but I'm allowed to have my opinion too, and I do not feel duped in the slightest. I'm just glad we got vaccination programme when we did.

I mean all of it I guess. The transmission issue that concerns some posters here, the fact they feel they were misled.

I don't have an agenda here. It's just hard to see it from the other side - I was anti lockdown etc, I didn't think the vaccine prevented transmission in the way that some posters did. I didn't understand why people were told to wait till their lips turned blue to get a hospital admission. Nor why it was talked about as if we couldn't even try the anti virals that we already had.

One of mum's friends was refused admission to any hospital including a Nightingale - though I remain baffled why his daughter drove him there - desperation I guess. He died at home a couple of days later, probably better at home.

So from April 2020, I was puzzled that people believed a lot of stuff around Covid...now there are people saying they are shocked to hear news that I thought was clear from the outset...it's a bit like people being shocked over Partygate. What in the name of blue fuck did they think powerful people were doing - following the rules?!

None of this has been handled as an epidemic. None of it made sense as an exercise in infection control.

So I imagine there are groups with very different views, different timings of when they realised something was wrong, and of course some people still think it was handled fine. I'm mainly curious what the majority view is. It relates directly to what orgs like the WHO and governments will try in future.

i think there's still a group trying to take Trudeau to court for invoking the Emergencies Act unnecessarily, but again, I don't know if that sort of thing gets reported in MSM.

Thank you.

twitter.com/mullally_elaine/status/1580120639637057536?s=46&t=fusifiEucE-d1qvccpA7pA

@EmmaH2022

i think there's still a group trying to take Trudeau to court for invoking the Emergencies Act unnecessarily, but again, I don't know if that sort of thing gets reported in MSM.

See, this is the thing. You post that, and someone else reads it, also doesn't bother to check, and posts it as 'MSM is suppressing information about' and then all their SM friends repeat it and so on and so on. When, in fact, a quick google would show you pages and pages of MSM results.

Wallaw I'm not going to censor myself on that basis. Anyone who wanted to know, myself included, can just look it up. I mostly don't do media so I don't know. I was just stating that. I have heard about it from a work contact.

if idle observations aren't permitted here, MN might as well close up t' shop.

Also, if people are relying so heavily on social media that they automatically think Emma's question, including the words "I don't know", is actually statement of fact, it's no wonder they trusted the government and no hope at all. I don't need to learn that lesson again post lockdowns.

Nor why it was talked about as if we couldn't even try the anti virals that we already had.

We did try them and they didn’t work. We tried a lot of stuff in the early days. We threw the whole kitchen sink of drugs at Covid trying to find something that would work. It’s a little fucker of a virus and lots of stuff that we thought might work, didn’t.

The silent hypoxia thing has been explained at lot. It was a mistake but was spotted relatively early and policies changed. The fact that covid patients with hypoxia had few of the symptoms that patients with hypoxia would normally have was a bit of a surprise IIRC.

Rafa the not approving remdevisir in the early days - too expensive? - now they are recommending it.

as for things that are a surprise - novel virus, of course new things will happen. Medical decisions became political, is the problem here.

there was no excuse for actively encouraging very ill people to avoid seeking treatment. And just talking shite about protecting care homes while discharging ill patients back into them.

I cannot understand why people are so keen to defend the appalling lack of humanity displayed through the last two years. I can only think it's because the despair of accepting it is too much. Some people can't go on without hope.

I feel that this is conflating all sorts of points together though @EmmaH2022

The government made some shocking decisions & didn't listen to scientific evidence.

This is seperate to all the fake "revelations" coming out about the coronavirus vaccines (specifically focussed on the Pfizer vaccine)

I don't think it is separate

the aim has been to obfuscate

hence some posters feeling let down - they thought govts all over the world were acting to help their citizens.

Actually it was 30 million over all that didn't take a third - those numbers include the ones who never had one.

Albert Bourla didn't show up to the meeting?. He's the one who admitted he hasn't taken a Covid vaccine.

Fact Check- Pfizer CEO received his second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine on March 2021

By Reuters Fact Check

3 MIN READ

Albert Bourla, the CEO of Pfizer, received his second dose of the COVID-19 vaccine on March 10, 2021. Still, in August 2021, users on social media have referred to an outdated article that states he had to cancel a trip for not being fully vaccinated as if it were new.

That's how much they lie!

@Samarie123 , does it ever occur to you to do a bit of fact-checking before repeating things you hear on social media from other anti-vaxers?

The anti-vaccine claims about Bourla make me laugh because people like the PP say simulataneously that he refused to be vaccinated ("Pfizer CEO doesn't want it!") AND that despite being vaccinated he's tested positive twice ("Pfizer vaccine useless!"")

Shrodinger's vaccination status, if you will.

www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccacoffey/2022/01/24/schrdinger-pedophilia-the-cat-is-out-of-the-bag-box/

ok I shall rephrase:

Simultameous deadalivecat vaccination status, if you will.

All irrelevant to a thread about vaccines - but I wonder what the field of physics have done about it. I'm in genetics and we've had a nightmare with all sorts of theorums/prizes/methods being named after scientists who turned out to have totally unacceptable views.

@saltedcaramel1

All irrelevant to a thread about vaccines*
*
A thread about vaccines, on a parenting forum.

You seem to determined to start an argument or detract from anyone pointing out fake claims about vaccines.

I pointed out anti-vaccine groups claim that the Pfizer CEO both turned down the vaccine AND that he keeps testing positive despite being vaccinated. Obviously both these things can't be true & it just demonstrates a real lack of critical thinking.

Shrodinger's paradox is still a common phrase both in science and colloquially- maybe it should be renamed (which I did when you pointed out some claims against him) but this is irrelevant to the thread.

I don't really understand what MN being a parenting forum has to do with any of it tbh - accusations of pedophilia are relevant to all members of society, not just those who have children.

'Fact checkers' LOL Do you mean the Gates funded factcheckers?

He was on Video saying it. I will find it.

Why?

Because of a) how sucessful their initial roll out was, and b) how population level benefits reduce once the vast majority have had a previous infection

I can't get the HPV vaccine - not because it's thought to be harmful, or because I wouldn't personally benefit - but because health economists have calculated that for my age group the benefits do not outweigh the costs.

The UK aren't offering a vaccine this autumn to healthy children (or anyone under 50), presumably for this reason.

Pfizer CEO,Albert Bourla, tweeted this in April 2021

"Excited to share that updated analysis from our Phase 3 study with BioNTech also showed that our COVID-19 vaccine was 100% effective in preventing #COVID19 cases in South Africa. 100%!"

I mean, what are people supposed to take from that other than the Pfizer vaccine prevents you from catching covid 19? Many public health authorities and world leaders, including Joe Biden, point blank said you won't get infected if you are vaccinated. Now history is being rewritten to say that this was never the case?