Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

This is another of my issues. People are now avoiding other vaccines like the flu vaccine and MMR as so there is now mistrust. We had an excellent uptake of the MMR previously.

the damage is immense and ongoing. The trust in regulators and authorities has been hugely damaged. This will have knock on effects on healthcare for decades

We had an excellent uptake of the MMR previously.

MMR uptake below the WHO recommendation of 95% and has been for over a decade. The uptake of MMR has fallen in virtually every year since 2013/2014. It hasn't been excellent since before Wakefield, although is significantly better now than it was when he was all over the TV.

That should say MMR uptake IS below the WHO recommended level.

here is a link to the EU hearing with Pfizer that was mentioned yesterday.

press conference after hearing

Thanks for posting these, but I think you may be wasting your time. I suspect respondents will tie themselves in knots trying to rationalise the fact that Pfizer didn't test for transmissibility ("B-b-but that doesn't MEAN it WAS transmissble – only that they didn't TEST for it!")

But perhaps the scales will finally start falling from the eyes of some.

I know of people IRL who are still scared and some posters haven't seen elderly parents indoors since this began. I wonder what will happen to those people.

The regulatory agencies that approve vaccines don't ask for testing of transmission, only safety and efficacy. You can still spread the flu after getting the flu jab.

Can You Still Spread the Flu After Getting the Flu Vaccine?

Should we stop approving influenza vaccines?

@MissConductUS have people's livelihood's/friendships/family relationships/ability to live normal lives been threatened/ruined by flu vaccine mandates, on the basis of false claims about the jabs' effects on transmission?

The flu vaccine is mandatory where I am if you work in healthcare with patient contact, and I don't recall it ruining anyone's life. Covid vaccines do reduce transmission.

New research suggests COVID-19 vaccines can slow the spread of disease, even with Omicron - A study of SARS-CoV-2 transmission shows the importance of vaccination in reducing the risk of transmission and cutting COVID-19 cases.

What did they find?

The overall risk of transmission to close contacts was 29%. However, people who had not been vaccinated had a higher risk (36%) of transmitting the virus compared to vaccinated people, whose risk was 27%.

The researchers estimate that index cases who had received more than one COVID-19 vaccine dose had a 24% lower risk of transmitting infection than unvaccinated index cases. Each additional dose was associated with an average 12% reduction in risk of transmission to the close contact. Those who had a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection had a 22% reduction in risk of transmission. Finally, having both the vaccine and a previous SARS-CoV-2 infection was associated with a 41% reduction risk of transmission.

What does this mean?

The data shows that although vaccination may not entirely eliminate the risk of a vaccinated person with a breakthrough infection from spreading the virus to others, it can greatly reduce the risk.

This is especially important in low-income countries, where efforts to increase COVID-19 vaccination continue, especially through COVAX and the COVID-19 Vaccine Delivery Partnership (CoVDP). This remains critical in ensuring vaccine equity against a disease that continues to claim many lives.

Ok so I don’t know about vaccine correlations but I can tell you a bit about the excess deaths as I’ve known an obscene number of people who have died or are now actively dying. And you are correct about it being due to the backlog within the NHS. All of these people had treatable conditions which were either left too late for diagnosis, or treatment/surgery was left too late. And for people to make such blanket statements about it being the vaccines fault is honestly just disrespectful, not all were vaccinated.

it’s easy to say now of course but as soon as we went into lockdown I knew this would be a problem, and that more people would end up dying as a result of lockdowns. But foresight is apparently not a thing.

@MissConductUS , the point is, we were TOLD the vaccines were going to stop transmission. It was presented as a fact, from many quarters – governmental, medical, scientific. You might not object to being lied to, but I certainly do.

So the vaccines have clearly saved millions of lives worldwide, and you have your knickers in a twist because you feel like you were somehow misled at the beginning of a pandemic caused by a new virus we had no experience with. Fine, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt about it.

I think comparing different countries is a tough one.

here, can we say there is any evidence the covid vaccine saved more lives than have been lost due to the removal of NHS facilities? Not saying we couldn't have had both - but we didn't. Then balance out the excess deaths generally.

just back from my flu jab. The jabber told me how much she enjoyed covid clinics, jabbing all day. Weirdo.

but they have played a blinder in terms of private profit. The pharmacist volunteered her time at the covid clinic.

my life is so changed by lockdown, I don't really know what others think, but wonder if they just don't want to admit they were hoodwinked.

Unbelievable that people are trying to dismiss this as "hurt feelings". There was direct contravention of the principles of informed consent, on the basis of lies. People lost their jobs. Some people even lost their lives after being financially or socially coerced into taking something they didn't want to take. The media actively encouraged splitting between people, family feuds, public shaming... but yeah, it's just a few hurt feelings.

I'm with you Social

I genuinely think some people can't bear to look the truth in the face. That said, it wasn't till lockdown that I realised how much people want authoritarianism. Or how utterly unrealistic they are about disease.

is this stuff being discussed in MSM at all?

@MissConductUS

"So the vaccines have clearly saved millions of lives worldwide, and you have your knickers in a twist because you feel like you were somehow misled at the beginning of a pandemic caused by a new virus we had no experience with. Fine, I'm sorry your feelings are hurt about it."

This post might win the gold medal for being absurdly reductive, patronising, and contemptuous - and you have tough competition - mainly from your own messages. The article you linked above is from GAVI, which could be considered biased on the subject of vaccines, no?

I think at the very beginning hopes were high that the vaccine would prevent Covid. However, by the time I had my first vaccine in January 2021 I was well aware that it would be good (not 100%) at preventing people from the more severe effects of the virus and hospitalisation/death and would REDUCE but not stop transmission.

I had my injections on this basis but knew that it was a possibility I could still get it (as was the case) but hoped that it would reduce symptoms.

I do not feel lied to in this regard by any measure.

I've had six of the fuckers, and I've never believed other than (a) I might still get covid, (b) I might still pass on covid, (c) hopefully having the jabs would reduce covid symptoms if I do get it, and (d) the jabs often come with side effects.

I'm basically carrying the Father Ted 'Careful Now' placard.

I suspect that the main jab-pushers/defenders on these boards will be winding it right down in coming weeks (in fact, looks like this wind down has already started - there's far less intensity from the usual suspects now), as there's no holding back the floodgates.

Six? I'm not clear who they are pushing them to now though.

I don't even think mum has had six and she is 83.

Neighbour has recently finished cancer treatment which has left her immune system shot. She had her 7th vaccine yesterday.

Tbh I think posters with relevant knowledge are bored of having the same circular conversations and pointing out the same illogical thinking in these repeated posts. The worst thing is that it's endless, so as soon as they explain one false claim, a dozen more pop up.

Thanks @MedSchoolRat for popping back in (they were incredibly helpful during the days of real active posting) but I get why they and others don't spend their time posting regularly anymore.

There is no new revelation. There is no crazy conspiracy that has been unmasked.

No drug company claimed their RCT would look at transmission (others have pointed out why it's impossible), so it's hardly so big reveal that pfizer have restated this. Vaccines reduced transmission because vaccinated people were less likely to get COVID. If you don't have it, the chain of infection is broken.

Is what being discussed in MSM?

Why would a credible newspaper waste print on something that's a non-story?

Pfizer said they wouldn't look into whether a vaccinated person was less infectious in their trial. Stats people explained why this would be impossible to do.

OMG now Pfizer have said again they didn't do the thing they said they wouldn't do that was impossible.

Same. My immunosuppressed daughter finally caught covid a few weeks ago and I'm so grateful that she'd had 4 doses before hand.