Is it ok to ask about the ramping up of vaccine side effects stories?

[SparklingJam]

I’m generally pro vaccines, but I’m starting to question the effects of the covid jab, and wonder if it’s possible to have a discussion about it. Apologies if this has been done to death, or isn’t an accepted topic.

I’ve been seeing more information about deaths of young men, how the vaccine isn’t very effective against covid, and hearing all about dreadful side effects, to the point where some people won’t have the jab because they “know” they’ll die.

I can fully accept that there are side effects, but the talk of increased deaths (apparently 1300 excess deaths per week, coupled with videos of supposed undertakers saying they are 50-100% busier now) is making me question things and worry.

Having said that, in my extended circle of friends, family and colleagues, I know many people who are mostly vaccinated, and apart from a day or 5 of feeling fluey they all have no side effects and haven’t died.
At the same time through the same extended group, I know a couple who have died of covid and several who still have long covid which has disabled them to varying degrees.

It would be logical to think that the excess deaths are a catch up to lock down and lack of hospital treatment, plus the current issues many have with seeing a gp or calling an ambulance, but I am assured by certain people that the excess deaths are solely due to the vaccine.

It's actually social media that blocks anyone speaking out!
There are alternative platforms where you can find out more about the vaccines.
Always two sides to anything. Then most critical thinkers weigh it up after doing a bit of research - it's nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

@Samarie123

Am someone who's literal job is in evidence synthesis & the critical assesment of medical science research. Have a doctorate which used these skills.

I can assure you that posters repeating claims they've seen on bitchute & youtube are not critical thinkers or "doing research".

Social media blocks health disinformation because it's harmful and costs lives. In an ideal world each post would instead be robustly challenged & responded to, but no one has the resources to do this when it comes in floods. MN doesn't want to host claims that are, for example, designed to coerce pregnant women out of being vaccinated, when we have robust evidence that this would increase risk for both mum & baby.

On this thread alone there is the same misinformation that has been repeated dozens of times, by the same old posters, despite many posters previously explaining why they are incorrect. We've interacted before and I'm pretty sure you were already making these kinds of claims way before the vaccines were even rolled out.

As I say on here (a lot), don't get vaccinated if you don't want to, but it's best to be making an informed choice and not being swayed by misinformation.

As on these types of threads it's hard to know which part to respond to.

@SparklingJam - if you do a MN search you will see that the people you are quoting and sharing have already been discussed many times over. They have been widely debunked because the claims they are making are not based in any kind of robust evidence.

I am not saying this because of who they are (although the history is always interested) or what "side" they are on, but because if you actually look at the statements they are making, they are nonsense.

On the "OMG excess mortality due to vaccination campaigns" - again this simply makes no sense. If someone dies due to the coronavirus vaccine, this happens very quickly after vaccination. It is biologically implausible for a vaccine to cause a death many months later. Coronavirus vaccinations reached peak rates a long time ago, and this is when you would have seen deaths spike, if the claims you are making were true.

Many epidemiologists have provided commentary on the factors underlying excess mortality in the UK, I will see if I can link some.

The mRNA vaccines have not been shown to have an all cause mortality benefit

Did that come from Dr Prasad? Why would you be focusing on all cause mortality for a vaccine? You wouldn’t necessarily expect it to prevent you from dying of things that aren’t covid or known complications of covid.

Presumably what you want to know is whether if reduces mortality and morbidity from covid. So you need to ask the question why the all cause mortality stay was given not the covid mortality stat.

Excuse me if I don’t get my medical information from Twitter.

But these vaccines don't work like vaccines either...

What do you actually mean by this @orzoisorange ? It's something that people keep repeating, as it sounds nice and ominous, but then can't expand on further.

Not sure if you're trying to hint at their efficacy, or their mode of action, but I can assure you that yes they're vaccines There's a reason the world's scientists are happy to refer to them as such.

Twitter is useful when you're linking to a verified scientist (ideally with an account that has existed before 2020, links to their institute, and lots of academic followers). I use it disseminate papers etc.

Posting from a random guy, "Peter Sweden", who regularly posts alarmist nonsense and is being retweeted by conspiracy theorists just demonstrated @orzoisorange can't find anyone credible to quote.

Here's the last three people who retweeted him:

Albanian Refugee ~ Proud #MAGARepublican
Population control is part of #LiberalWorldOrder #TheGreatReset

ULTRA MAGA Julie B.
Death jab, deliberate and the fking parents are to blame!!!!!

Boat Guy Mike MEGA 🌎 🌍
Do you seriously need to ask??
For real.
WEF "worthless eaters"
Bill Gates "we have to reduce the population"
Depopulation 101. . .
the children are the future, so start with them

*But these vaccines don't work like vaccines either...

The OP was asked to provide evidence and links for their claims, "or get your thread deleted" – why should the same not be asked of you? Where are the links to the proof that these excess deaths are due to the overstretching of the NHS for these reasons – particularly when unusual excess death rates are happening across many countries. Do they all have underfunded nationalised health services?*

but again, this bloke is claiming over a 1000% increase in deaths amongst the under 14’s across Europe. With nothing to back it up. There’s no link to published stats, no breakdowns.

cause of death is recorded. What is the cause of death in these cases? There will have been inquests and records, and the ONS publishes all this.

Just a quick search has produced these dictionary definitions of "vaccine".

"A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease."

"A vaccine is a substance containing a harmless form of the germs that cause a particular disease. It is given to people, usually by injection, to prevent them getting that disease."

"vaccine

QUICK REFERENCE
Any preparation of immunogenic material suitable for the stimulation of active immunity in animals without inducing disease."

"vaccine
a substance that is put into the body of a person or animal to protect them from a disease by causing them to produce antibodies (=proteins that fight diseases)"

"What does vaccine mean?
A vaccine is a substance introduced into someone’s body to prevent them from getting a specific disease."

Why is it completely fine to brush these under the carpet when it's the Covid "vaccines" you're talking about? It's like the emperor's new clothes.

And who exactly are "the world's scientists"? Are they one entity with a single opinion?

Oh and it took me about a second to find out he denies the holocaust and has other hateful far right views. Yes he's tried to deny it (and has a entire website pronouncing how he has "Black, Jewish and Homosexual friends"), but the interview were he made these claims are in the public domain.

Unusprising and tedious @orzoisorange

Yep
Definitely sounds like someone we should take medical advice from 😀

www.ncmd.info/publications/child-death-data-release-2021/

here. Child death stats.

i haven’t read it properly but in the summary:

“NCMD received 3,068 notifications of child deaths from CDOPs in England where the child died between 1 April 2020 and 31 March 2021. This is 361 fewer deaths than the previous year. The reduction of deaths is apparent over winter months, which may be due to social distancing and other public health measures put into place in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. A broader review of this data is available elsewhere (doi.org/10.1101/2021.08.23.21262114)“

so where has this huge increase come from.

also the 0-12 age group is the least vaccinated, so how are we linking a massive rise in death specifically in that age group to the covid vaccination?

Give over @orzoisorange

I'm an epidemiologist, I'm aware of what a vaccine is. You can copy and paste all you want, but yes the coronavirus vaccines are indeed vaccines. We moved beyond live vaccines several decades ago, as scientific research advanced. This has had many many advatantages.

Nope, the "world's scientists" aren't a single entity, and yes we have differing opinions - which converge around scientific consensus based on the best available evidence.

You will not be able to link to a single credible expert who claims that the coronavirus vaccines are not vaccines, and that they should'nt have been rolled out.

If you have "evidence" to share, do so via links and explain where it is from, what are the person's credentials etc @orzoisorange

Blurry screenshots from your phone, where I can make out things like HORRIFYING, and where the author has circled things in red on microsoft paint, don't really fill me with confidence.

Here is some of the data that backs up what he says

Even if he’s correct in the stats, how do you link all these excess deaths to the vaccine when that age group is the least vaccinated?

have all these children who have died even been vaccinated?

surely if vaccinations were the culprit the highest death rates would be seen in the age groups with the highest vaccination rates?

Completely untrue @Samarie123 - I would consider why you are so keen to promote misinformation designed to coerce pregnant women out of being vaccinated.

I would be devastated if my fake claims increased risk to pregnant women & their babies.

For any pregnant women - here is most up to date guidance from RCOG:

www.rcog.org.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-women-s-health/vaccination/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding-faqs/

That is disinformation, the advice hasn’t changed.

www.gov.uk/government/news/no-change-to-mhra-advice-on-the-safety-and-effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccines-for-those-who-are-pregnant-or-breastfeeding

And this is a perfect demonstration of why you shouldn’t be looking to social media for your vaccine info.

Exactly
This SM “evidence” is all dramatic headlines and no substance or hard facts

He might be brilliant at treating congestive heart failure and a nutter on diet and vaccines, both of which are not his specialty.

Please report report report any dangerous disinformation.

"Then most critical thinkers weigh it up after doing a bit of research - it's nothing to do with conspiracy theories."

I love it when people consider themselves critical thinkers . It's also so predictable

I really can't believe people still believe all this crap. Don't have the vaccine or anything, I really don't care. Your body your problem
But I will still just oddly follow the advice of people actually qualified enough to have an opinion. My body, my choice

Just stop spreading this misinformation crap. Stop