On course for another lockdown?

[TalkToTheHand123]

Covis cases on a rapid rise, heading towards 100,000 daily cases. Are we heading for another lockdown?

Well there are loads of people who won't wear a mask, they would rather catch it than do that.

But it's not a straight choice, is it?

Wear a mask and you won't 'catch it'. Don't wear one and you will.

It doesn't work that way. Masks aren't the magic talisman some on MN believe.

@Teateaandmoretea

If no one wants to catch COVID, the national actions are irrational. We are voluntarily increasing our risks of catching COVID.

Don’t be so silly.

No one wants to catch a bad cold, flu or norovirus either. We don’t have national restrictions to prevent it.

The last 2 years has removed rationality from a minority of the population it seems.

Norovirus isn’t he best example you could use, pre-covid it wasn’t unusual for schools, care homes and hospitals to close their doors for a period of time due to norovirus and there is a H&S obligation to not attend settings within a set period following the end of symptoms. If we had similar levels of infection we’d be doing something. Flu (various strains) also has measures that are implemented at its highest levels across various species that has economic and social impacts - see the recent headlines regarding no free range eggs will be available in the UK due to bird flu and having to keep all chickens inside.

Rationality doesn’t mean discounting evidence of how we deal with other highly infectious, if comparatively mild, diseases. How we’re approaching covid culturally at the moment is the oddity imho.

Lockdown isn’t necessary and probably ineffective with the contagiousness of the current strains but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need managing. There are impacts from mitigations for sure, but ending mitigations doesn’t erase the impacts of widespread illness and high circulation.

The lesson is to get your boosters and urge your older relatives to get them too, because it makes more difference than anything else short of a full lockdown.

My over 75 neighbour booked her 4th booster this morning when they became available and she's having it done tomorrow. It's all about personal responsibility now and managing our own health, not about lockdowns.

@IcedPurple

Well there are loads of people who won't wear a mask, they would rather catch it than do that.

But it's not a straight choice, is it?

Wear a mask and you won't 'catch it'. Don't wear one and you will.

It doesn't work that way. Masks aren't the magic talisman some on MN believe.

You're right.

Masks reduce the risk to other people

It is one of the most useful things that the ordinary person can do (despite all those clinging to the misplaced idea that they make no difference).

(Rates are much higher than I thought they would be as we approach the end of March. This makes little day-to-day difference, until there are random outages in businesses and schools because people are unwell and there are insufficient staff to operate adequately.

But it means a lot to those waiting for NHS treatment, as it becomes harder to tackle the backlog. You cannot deliver safe eg cancer care unless you can have 'green' facilities such as scanning departments (checking if tumours have shrunk) and the logistics of dealing with covid-positive patients who are admitted for reasons other than covid, can really bugger up patient management and will reduce throughout

It's not 100, 00 a day, it's over 305, 000, and the current number of cases is over 3 million at 3,190,191. The government knows this.

It is one of the most useful things that the ordinary person can do (despite all those clinging to the misplaced idea that they make no difference).

If that's how you feel, wear a mask as long as you wish.

@IcedPurple

It is one of the most useful things that the ordinary person can do (despite all those clinging to the misplaced idea that they make no difference).

If that's how you feel, wear a mask as long as you wish.

I think you'll find that it's a requirement in healthcare settings, and yes I will continue to be masked at work, and indeed will choose to wear a mask in all indoors public places

I'm not doing it for the feeling, but because of the evidence.

Masks offered a degree of protection against pre-Omicron strains. We know that. The evidence for them actually doing anything much against Omicron in real world conditions isn't there. The closest anyone ever gets in these discussions is either producing data from before Omicron or in idealised conditions for Omicron. With that in mind, it's not a great shock that so many people are disinclined to bother with them.

@IcedPurple

It is one of the most useful things that the ordinary person can do (despite all those clinging to the misplaced idea that they make no difference).

If that's how you feel, wear a mask as long as you wish.

I mean their understanding of an ordinary mask is useful for containment of an individuals infection is more than how they feel, that’s exactly how they work and that’s been that’s always been the case. There is marginal lowering of risk of catching covid but it’s much more about not unknowingly spreading it.

Mask wearing is very socially impacted

Ie you get a tipping point whereby people want to go with the general consensus

I’m in quite a high area for wearing them, or I have been rather as the social consensus seems to have to most not.

Each day at nursery pick up for example fewer and fewer will be wearing one. I’m relieved as I was ready to stop and now I’m just one of many who have

Well- I am on covid day 10 today. My positive line is very faint now but I feel utterly wretched still.
I had to go to the supermarket today. I went very early to minimise the risk to others and wore a mask.
This is a horrible virus and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I will be going back to bed.

@Juno22

My over 75 neighbour booked her 4th booster this morning when they became available and she's having it done tomorrow. It's all about personal responsibility now and managing our own health, not about lockdowns.

Unfortunately personal responsibility doesn't mean very much in an infectious disease pandemic.

@BattledoreAndShuttlecock

China have a very poor vaccination level in the elderly and very little natural immunity (and the Sinovac vaccine probably isn't as effective either). The fatality rate in Hong Kong from the latest outbreak looks like ours did two years ago, so the levels of infection we have at the moment would be disastrous for them.

Yes - sinovac showed around ~50% efficacy in trials against the original variant identified in Wuhan. Pfizer/AZ/Moderna etc showed ~95%.

Given how quickly real world effectiveness was reduced as coronavirus mutated, I doubt it offers barely any protection now.

The situation in China sounds very difficult now

A highly infectious variant coupled with low immunity and vaccine efficacy.

*I think you'll find that it's a requirement in healthcare settings, and yes I will continue to be masked at work, and indeed will choose to wear a mask in all indoors public places

I'm not doing it for the feeling, but because of the evidence.*

I'm not aware of any great body of evidence showing the effectiveness of masks against Omicron, but that's not the point of this discussion.

The point is that masks, and other restrictions, are now a matter of personal choice. You may choose to wear a mask, but the majority will not unless legally obliged to do so, something which seems highly unlikely at this point in time. Whether or not you or anyone else thinks they should wear one is irrelevant.

I'm not aware of any great body of evidence showing the effectiveness of masks against Omicron, but that's not the point of this discussion.

The variant of concern does not impact mask effectivess @IcedPurple. Increased transmissility doesn't mean that it can somehow sneak out of a mask more easily, it's that fewer viral particles are required to infect someone, making the argument for masks stronger.

We know they reduce transmission - it just seems to be that people who don't want to wear them refuse to believe this.

The variant of concern does not impact mask effectivess @IcedPurple. Increased transmissility doesn't mean that it can somehow sneak out of a mask more easily, it's that fewer viral particles are required to infect someone, making the argument for masks stronger.

How does that make the 'argument for masks' stronger? "Viral particles" are easily going to escape from the type of masks most people wear.

In any case, as I said above it's irrelevant to this discussion.The majority of people aren't going to wear masks or restrict themselves again unless legally obliged, no matter what people on MN think.

@IcedPurple

The variant of concern does not impact mask effectivess @IcedPurple. Increased transmissility doesn't mean that it can somehow sneak out of a mask more easily, it's that fewer viral particles are required to infect someone, making the argument for masks stronger.

How does that make the 'argument for masks' stronger? "Viral particles" are easily going to escape from the type of masks most people wear.

In any case, as I said above it's irrelevant to this discussion.The majority of people aren't going to wear masks or restrict themselves again unless legally obliged, no matter what people on MN think.

Because masks reduce the amount of viral particles expelled by an infectious person.

In somewhere contained, such as a tube carriage, this would have a cumulative reduction on the viral load someone sitting in there is exposed to, in the current situation where we have high case rates.

It's not irrelevant to the discussion at all - there are reasons people won't wear masks, but claiming it's because they aren't effective is incorrect.

Also unsure as to why you put viral particles in quotation marks there @IcedPurple, you're denying they exist?

[quote TypicaIMe]@carefullycourageous

A tiny minority of people wear/wore FFP2 masks. Are you saying that everyone who didn't actively wanted to catch covid?

I'm sure you'll the millions of people who wore masks but caught Covid anyway are also 'anecdata' you'll cheerfully dismiss. I'm currently on my fifth round of Covid despite mask wearing and being very careful, as I'm CEV.

What's worrying about attitudes like yours is that after two years it shows that some people are still placing blame on others for catching a virus.[/quote]
Only in the U.K. people didn’t wear them. Other European countries it was mandatory to wear a minimum of FFP2 in public. That’s what was bonkers ab our government. The only healthcare workers too to not wear full FFP3 masks for all, and caring for covid wards with just a surgical! Still ongoing issues with that.
Just like at the olympics in chine all FFP2/FFP3 no mask exceptions either.

Does anyone even still care/test?!

To be perfectly honest I haven't even thought about Covid for about a month now until I just popped on here today.

Only in the U.K. people didn’t wear them. Other European countries it was mandatory to wear a minimum of FFP2 in public.

I'm not sure how much truth there is in this Have you any other examples apart from Germany?

They certainly weren't mandatory where I am (ROI).

@Hologrammer I suspect you would care very much if you were ill.

@Hologrammer

Does anyone even still care/test?!

To be perfectly honest I haven't even thought about Covid for about a month now until I just popped on here today.

Of course people do. It depends very much on your life circumstances but like any disease there are different levels of concern/risk.

Infection rates are really high, at their highest I think, therefore more people whose lives could be impacted are being impacted. Like most things, just because there’s no impact on you personally or your own circle isn’t evidence that there isn’t a wider issue.

I think you’re in a lucky position if you genuinely don’t come across scenarios where you have to consider covid or testing. Enjoy it, but don’t be fooled that it’s all over and done with for everyone.