Do you think the NHS will really fire all unvaccinated staff?

[IncompleteSenten]

I just can't bring myself to believe that will happen. Surely it must be bully boy tactics and at the last minute they'll back down.

The NHS can barely cope now. How the hell is it going to cope with, what? 80,000-100,00 fewer staff?

@Itsnotover. Don’t worry, I’ve already eaten. I love how you call someone a troll because you simply disagree with their views. Not to worry, I understand, it’s easier to call someone a name than have an adult conversation ✌🏼

The manger of the ward next door to mine, who is lovely. Told her unvaccinated staff to let her know when they'd booked their appointment. Or to make an appointment with her to discuss the termination of their contract.

I think they will go through with it. A lot of HCPs who aren't keen will end up getting the jab to keep their jobs.

You would be foolish to give up your career to not have a safe and effective vaccination which is for your benefit. I understand body autonomy but ultimately this is just another condition of employment. The main issue would be if the NMC stipulated you have to be vaccinated to retain your NMC pin number but I can't see them doing that.

Can they back down now, after triumphant announcement of successful booster programme being the reason for dropping all the restrictions?
Anyways, even knowing gov making policies not backed by the science but by the political gain, I still think people who work with vulnerable people should think of protecting them and should get vaccinated.

How will the NHS cope? It won’t. But it won’t because they have lost another 90k people. Nope. It will be because I’d the inefficiency of the system and the need to go private to remedy to it.

Can you see the tactic there? Same then when they run down the investment to be able to say it’s not working so we need private companies ripping people off instead (sorry private companies to come and save us I think is what they say…)

I think you might be right

@MaxNormal

Those that genuinely are exempt will keep their jobs

It's nigh on impossible to get an exemption.

That’s because there are very few cases of true exception, despite what you might read on here.

Many are self diagnosed exempt to give an excuse for not having the vaccine. (Similar to mask wearing).

Granted, this is in the United States, but the vaccine mandate for health care works is in place. My daughter is a charge nurse at a mid sized hospital, and they fired their unvaccinated nurses leaving them with a significant staffing shortage. They are addressing the shortage by following the CDC guidance which allows for covid positive workers to work so long as they are only mildly symptomatic.

The mind boggles. Covid negative unvaccinated is fired for being a threat to public health while vaccinated covid positive are expected to work...

@samyeagar

Nothing unusual or ridiculous about that approach at all

[quote Londonnight]@NavigatingAdolescence
In our hospital it is including all I have said. As domestics we on on the wards with the patients, so have to have the vaccine. Porters come onto the ward to collect rubbish, laundry etc. Again they have been told they have to have the vaccine. The same goes for kitchen staff too, who rarely come onto the ward apart from bringing the food trolley.[/quote]
This is correct.

It also includes staff who may need to come into contact with patients on an incidental basis or may need to occasionally come into contact if assisting in a period of low staffing.

Basically it sounds like it will affect a large number of staff and thus there will be very limited redeployment opportunities. Luckily over 90% of our trust are vaccinated.

@samyeagar

Granted, this is in the United States, but the vaccine mandate for health care works is in place. My daughter is a charge nurse at a mid sized hospital, and they fired their unvaccinated nurses leaving them with a significant staffing shortage. They are addressing the shortage by following the CDC guidance which allows for covid positive workers to work so long as they are only mildly symptomatic.

The mind boggles. Covid negative unvaccinated is fired for being a threat to public health while vaccinated covid positive are expected to work...

I can see this happening with social care here, which makes an utter mockery of the 'protect the vulnerable' and 'duty of care' mantra being rolled out to shame anyone who even has questions about the vaccine. I'm fully vaccinated, and pro vaccination, but I can't help thinking that the speed the mandate was pushed through for social care in relation to where we were with the vaccination program, was a deflection against the questions being asked about duty of care failings from higher up such as discharging positive patients into care homes and the total lack of investment in the industry, combined with the providers being allowed to take large profit from money intended to pay for vulnerable people's care. "Yeah we know all those things but look! Look at how we made all those selfish care assistants get jabbed to protect your loved ones or clear out! We got tough on them because your loved ones welfare is our top priority until it comes to spending money or making real changes or admitting we've fucked the system up beyond repair"

I work for the NHS. The process is in place for this to happen with redeployment where possible, although this is fairly limited (alongside lots of gentle encouragement for staff to get their vaccine in the interim). Hiring requirements have also been updated.

So, yes. It’s happening.

If they fire people, the very next day, patients will die.

I would think that they would update their hiring policies - hire jabbed people only. You can get jabbed doctors from all over the world, don't just need to get them from the UK.

I also work for the NHS in a large London Hospital.

This is happening. Only a couple of weeks now to the final deadline.

I would be surprised if many people are actually fired (or even redeployed as that would mean a downbanding). In other countries that have implemented the same policy almost all their staff accepted the vaccination, we're not so different in the UK.

A lot of people are very brave on the internet and like to rant away on social media. When it comes to them losing their job? Not so much.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@godmum56 Yep Austria who is so knowledgeable and certain about the vaccine that they are mandating it for everyone except ..........pregnant women??
Yet here in the UK we are repeatedly told pregnant women really must have it?
It shows how ridiculous the whole thing is becoming[/quote]
irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not mandatory vaccination breached Human Rights legislation

@sarahc336

I'm nhs and I know my service are currently gearing up for the loss of staff, I'm a mental health trust so yes I think the plan is that will be forced to xx

I’m ready for the unvaccinated to go from my team. It’s highlighted a shocking lack of scientific understanding and sheer quackery in their thinking and practice. They have both proven to be intractable about patient safety and don’t hold the same values as the rest of us. If it means more work then so be it and I suspect there will be other departments finding the same.

@babyKat

I live with a nurse and her boss is also unvacc and taking early retirement. I told my friend even if they fire, her, she can work privately and earn £600 a day, so what. there are plenty of private persons who do not care that will hire her. so it is her loss. they are threatening and they wouild be stupid, because when this drama is all over, in a year or two, and all of this is proven illegal by claims to the human rights court, she will be able to sue the NHS for unfair dismissal by the way, any person would have a claim to the EU court, as mandatory vacc is still illegal under the Geneva convention.

Nurses, whether NHS or private, are already subject to mandatory vaccinations in the UK. Covid is just one more on the list. Lol would love to see her try to get private work when all the private hospitals etc have had mandatory covid vaccines for over a year now!

No. The NHS would be in a crisis

It extends to all NHS subcontractors too I.e Charities who work alongside NHS staff in lots of social care community services. It also includes any agency workers, bank staff, students and volunteers. Recruitment wise you need to provide vaccination record as you would provide reference during all your background checks prior to a job offer. Many recent vacancies are highlighting this stipulation in their adverts.

@MrsOnions0

It extends to all NHS subcontractors too I.e Charities who work alongside NHS staff in lots of social care community services. It also includes any agency workers, bank staff, students and volunteers. Recruitment wise you need to provide vaccination record as you would provide reference during all your background checks prior to a job offer. Many recent vacancies are highlighting this stipulation in their adverts.

So if you volunteer in a hospital you would have to be vaccinated? That's interesting.

Yes, certain for one London NHS Trust I work with

So to the NHS managers, HR etc posting on the thread, what is the policy if someone says they will get vaccinated now to keep their job? Is the first one enough with the commitment to get the second?

@Peoniesandpeaches Glad you feel up to the extra work We've been given the wrong impression then.

@Itsnotover

I don't personally think that people who don't believe in science or medicine have any business working for the NHS. Particularly in a patient facing role. Just why would they even want to continue to do so unless they're massive hypocrites?

Excellent point.

@Peoniesandpeaches I’m ready for the unvaccinated to go from my team. It’s highlighted a shocking lack of scientific understanding and sheer quackery in their thinking and practice. They have both proven to be intractable about patient safety and don’t hold the same values as the rest of us. If it means more work then so be it and I suspect there will be other departments finding the same.

One of my kids is a nurse and said the same, almost word for word. You aren't mine are you?

@Peoniesandpeaches

Very good points. The lack of understanding of vaccines, testing, what is in them etc from some NHS is alarming.

"I’m ready for the unvaccinated to go from my team. It’s highlighted a shocking lack of scientific understanding and sheer quackery in their thinking and practice. They have both proven to be intractable about patient safety and don’t hold the same values as the rest of us. If it means more work then so be it and I suspect there will be other departments finding the same."