Do you think the NHS will really fire all unvaccinated staff?

[IncompleteSenten]

I just can't bring myself to believe that will happen. Surely it must be bully boy tactics and at the last minute they'll back down.

The NHS can barely cope now. How the hell is it going to cope with, what? 80,000-100,00 fewer staff?

@godmum56 So you don't think excluding pregnant women makes a mockery of Austria's mandatory vaccination?

They would have to bring in a new law anyway first (which will never get passed by parliament IMO) otherwise they'll be drowning in lawsuits. As far as I'm aware we're still a free country and people have bodily autonomy?

Lots of jobs have rules about vaccinations and other medical things. They won't need a new law, but they will need to update everyone's contracts and speak to the relevant unions I would think (unless they already have).

You need to have had your first by Thursday 3rd Feb to be fully vaccinated by 1st April. From next week conversations will begin with those who haven’t had their first. It’s likely conversations will then move on to those who’ve not had 2nd by end March.

“From Thursday 6th Jan the amended Health and Social Care Act of 2008 (Regulated activities) came in to effect. It is now law that staff, workers, contractors, volunteers, apprentices and students who have direct and indirect face to face contact with patients must be double vaccinated” Quote from an NHS Trust email

@HarrietteNightingale

So to the NHS managers, HR etc posting on the thread, what is the policy if someone says they will get vaccinated now to keep their job? Is the first one enough with the commitment to get the second?

I can't speak for all NHS trusts but the policy at my trust is that relevant staff MUST have had their vaccination by Feb 3rd.

*also applies if your work supports healthcare activities i.e. receptionists, porters, ward clerks and estates

@MrsBillyNoJagNoMates Do you think the patients will have a right to be treated by medical professional who has no covid once the SI for actual illness will finish at the end of March? I was just quoting a doctor, maybe ask her? But for me I guess the same applies, would the staff be happy for their status to be known to patients either that they have the infection or if they are fully vaccinated. I can imagine people saying that is confidential but as the doctor said if they want choices then surely patients should have choices as well.

@HarrietteNightingale

So to the NHS managers, HR etc posting on the thread, what is the policy if someone says they will get vaccinated now to keep their job? Is the first one enough with the commitment to get the second?

First they need to definitely have their first by 3rd feb.

Then the second needs to be had by 31st March.

There is no grace period. There is no exemption if they are away at the end of March.

“So if you volunteer in a hospital you would have to be vaccinated? That's interesting.”

Yes it includes all volunteers, apprentices and students.

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@godmum56 So you don't think excluding pregnant women makes a mockery of Austria's mandatory vaccination?[/quote]
the comment was about whether a) vaccination in England will be mandatory (it won't) and b) that it contravened European Human Rights Law (it doesn't and neither does what will happen in Austria)

May be but it seems unnecessary now that the virus is milder.

@Lolamento

May be but it seems unnecessary now that the virus is milder.

That doesn’t guarantee that future variants will be.

I can't speak for all NHS trusts but the policy at my trust is that relevant staff MUST have had their vaccination by Feb 3rd.

The legislation states 1st dose must have been taken by 3rd Feb. 2nd by 31st March. That’s the law.

@IncompleteSenten

I just can't bring myself to believe that will happen. Surely it must be bully boy tactics and at the last minute they'll back down.

The NHS can barely cope now. How the hell is it going to cope with, what? 80,000-100,00 fewer staff?

I heard someone saying on TV on Wednesday that the pandemic is over all restrictions are ending, think his name was Boris, strange hairpiece on.

If they are right, why would anyone need who isn't already need to be vaccinated.

@WouldIBeATwat

I can't speak for all NHS trusts but the policy at my trust is that relevant staff MUST have had their vaccination by Feb 3rd.

The legislation states 1st dose must have been taken by 3rd Feb. 2nd by 31st March. That’s the law.

Managers in my trust have been told that we have the discretion to offer a SHORT grace period, to be covered by annual or unpaid leave. So if someone had their first dose on say Feb 10th then they may, at their managers discretion, be allowed to return to work once they have had the second jab. Anyone on maternity leave also has a bit of flexibility, in that they don't need to be vaccinated until their return.

In terms of actually being in any clinical premises? No. No flexibility at all.

I heard someone saying on TV on Wednesday that the pandemic is over all restrictions are ending, think his name was Boris, strange hairpiece on.

He didn’t say the pandemic was over. (And would you believe anything that bumbling twat says you have bigger issues!)

If they are right, why would anyone need who isn't already need to be vaccinated.

Because it’s now the law.

Like others have said, although the NHS is an organisation which will have the highest No of staff who this may affect its for ALL CQC regulated activity, so it's not like all those who are HCPs will be out of the NHS and getting money elsewhere / be employed by private providers or by agencies. And there aren't that many non-patient facing roles for redeployment, and even if redeployed, they could end up at a lower band than currently employed at.

One of my very good friends is refusing vaccination (she doesn't want it, doesn't want to be forced to have it), and she's potentially throwing away a 25 year career, all the work to be a registered HCP for the sake of a vaccination. I think when it comes to it, more will be vaccinated because realistically, people have bills to pay, food to put on the table, have to keep a roof over their head. And realistically, not many could manage the time it takes for a judicial review - registered HCPs need to do cpd and re validate, it's much harder if you aren't working to do that.

I don't agree (didn't agree with mandatory vaccination for care home staff either), but it's not looking like the government are going to back down, so it won't be that anyone will have any discretion about whether someone works in a higher risk area or not. And not just "THE NHS" - every CQC regulated activity - dentists, private therapy, ear irrigation clinics etc.

I work in the NHS as does my fiancée, we’re both triple vaccinated and both currently have covid, my fiancée for the second time. All the people in my department who have recently tested positive for covid (there’s quite a few) have also been vaccinated, so to me, personally, I think considering you are still significantly at risk of getting and spreading covid despite being vaccinated means there’s not enough justification for sacking people who are unvaccinated. I also think we can’t preach about informed consent and not being pressured into medical treatment if we are going to ignore that for our staff, there is no requirement for patients to be vaccinated to be allowed into hospitals as visitors or for elective procedures etc, and many of those are coming in and spreading covid.

We had the email today too. It sickens me.

I won't be having the booster for certain, the two previous jabs have ballsed up so much for me health wise already, I'll leave if I have to.

I think there will either be a load of exceptions introduced or the date will be moved.

March 31st is a few weeks before local elections and there is no way the Tories will want any more staff shortages in the NHS before then.

Will they fire them? Probably. They did here.

The heroes of 2020 have become the villains of 2022. People were happy for them to go onto wards and treat patients all through 2020 when no one was vaccinated. Even gave them pizzas and Uber rides to thank them. Clapped for them. Now it’s ok if you’re vaccinated and possibly have COVID (asymptomatically) but woe betide anyone should be unvaccinated and not have COVID and want to go to work.

I hope they do follow through with this, I am a nurse and experience the consequences of staff shortages every day. However, it's a science based profession, we know vaccines are the way out of this mess, make your choice and take responsibility.

I think they will and I think they will

My trust has sent out another email today outlining that they will press ahead with letting go of unvaccinated staff.

@Elsiebear90

I work in the NHS as does my fiancée, we’re both triple vaccinated and both currently have covid, my fiancée for the second time. All the people in my department who have recently tested positive for covid (there’s quite a few) have also been vaccinated, so to me, personally, I think considering you are still significantly at risk of getting and spreading covid despite being vaccinated means there’s not enough justification for sacking people who are unvaccinated. I also think we can’t preach about informed consent and not being pressured into medical treatment if we are going to ignore that for our staff, there is no requirement for patients to be vaccinated to be allowed into hospitals as visitors or for elective procedures etc, and many of those are coming in and spreading covid.

Doesn’t matter what you or anyone else thinks. It’s mandatory under law.

@llanfair11

I think there will either be a load of exceptions introduced or the date will be moved.

March 31st is a few weeks before local elections and there is no way the Tories will want any more staff shortages in the NHS before then.

The tories have not cared about staffing shortages for the past 10 years. This makes no difference to Tory voters

I am a manager in the nhs and the trust I work for are definitely assuming it is going ahead.