Campaign to review child covid vaccination by Gt Ormond St Hospital expert

[perfectSmiles3]

Without the intent to cause panic... why is this not in the news?

There was an open letter sent to JCVI (copy of the letter is online) signed by about 15 well-regarded medical professionals and an even greater number of MPs urging the JCVI to review the current child vaccination programme.

I've also come across an interview with one of the signatories, Prof Brent Taylor, Emeritus Professor of Community Child Health, UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health discussing their concerns and the letter. I find it very unnerving listening to his words.

I find it chilling that children should be offered it to be honest. It shows how divided the issue is!

I know hundreds of kids who have had covid and it’s been very minor. The data is suggesting a higher rate in young men at least of issues from the vaccine - especially after two doses

I appreciate we all assess risk differently but there must be choice. It Italy, 12 year olds who haven’t had it cannot now do sport, even outside. This makes me weep.

I think it also makes people less trusting

The other issue is whether the vaccines prevent covid side effects such as long covid? It is presented as an either/or discussion but if you can get covid after two vaccines can you still get long covid? My friend is triple vacced and is struggling with covid weeks later

There are so many nuances in this debate. If worried parents want it then fair enough. I don’t want any healthy young person in my family to take it however. I feel incredibly strongly about that now we can see the benefits of natural infection. Are we subjecting young people to the need for constant boosters if they avoid omicron?

There isn't choice in the UK.

It's go to school with an almost 100% certainty of being infected, because no mitigations or stay home with no life (people don't seem to care about the mental health impact of this on CEV kids).

No option for a vaccine, no option for better mitigations in schools.

I don't think unvaccinated kids should be denied doing sport - but that's not an issue in the UK (I doubt it's true in Italy to be honest) but it's irrelevant to the issue here.

50% of 12-15 year olds in the UK roughly haven't taken up the vaccine. But they have the choice. Some have taken it, others haven't. 5-11s don't have a choice at all.

The only lack of choice and 'forcing' is of those, including clinically vulnerable, who want the vaccine and are being FORCED to be infected instead.

And look at the rates of hospitalisation in little kids, if more older kids were vaccinated it would reduce transmission somewhat. Nothing else is being done to stop the precipitous rise in hospitalisation of kids.

the precipitous rise in hospitalisation of kids.

Sorry?

About 29 mins in. More children hospitalised with covid in last 3 weeks than in the whole of the first wave (March - August 2020) and this is probably old data by now, I think from seeing some scientists on twitter it's continued to go up as new data is reported.

[quote BewareTheLibrarians]@Thievesoil It’s precisely for the benefit of confused parents like you that it would be so helpful for there to be a 50/50 split in the information available. I can imagine how hard it is when the information is skewed like this.

This HART/U4T group have some much (unethically gotten) reach, that a lot of parents are mostly only hearing one side of the story.

For e.g., when did you last hear a story about PIMS in the news or on your social media feed? Have you seen any info with the symptoms of long covid? Would you know what to do if your child had mild covid then developed red eyes and cracked lips after getting better? Have you seen stories of a child suffering with long covid over a year? Have you seen an explanation of organ damage caused by covid in children?

I’m going to guess “no”.

Have you seen the narrative on the news or social media that covid is mild for children? That children hospitalised with covid are “with” not “of”? That the vaccines carry more risk?

I’m going to guess “yes, a fuckton.”[/quote]
I’ve found it to be completely the other way round.
Covid is a killer, thousands have long covid and everyone including kids must be vaccinated at any and all costs. Kids must be masked and have swabs stuck up their noses multiple times a week. You must not dare to question the vaccination or by labeled and antivaxxer idiot- even if you have had the vaccines and every other vaccines yourself.
I’ve barely heard a thing about any possible long term side effects or anything negative to do with the vaccine whatsoever. It almost seems like even if your arm dropped off 1 hour after having it, it would ‘still be worth it’

@Sonex

So what if the vaccine gives you temporary, non serious, self-resolving myocarditis - temporary inflammation of the heart muscle, as long as it's not serious or long term? lots of things do - every time you get flu or a cold virus, after a massive bender, smoking, stress. And covid itself. As long as it's not acute or severe or long lasting (like when you get it from covid itself) it's not an issue. How many boys have died as a result of it being post vaccine? One with underlying health issues?

Stop scaremongering.

Damage to the heat muscle doesn’t heal?l totally? Once it’s damaged it will never be 100% again!

@Thievesoil

I appreciate we all assess risk differently but there must be choice.

and

I find it chilling that children should be offered it to be honest.

Can you see the conflict between these two comments?
Do you only agree with choice when it's the choice you agree with?

50% of 12-15 year olds in the UK roughly haven't taken up the vaccine. But they have the choice.

I wonder how many took the vaccine in order to be able to travel abroad?

it looks like the risk of it for young men outweighs the benefit.

Nonsense.

Are you a cardiologist? This really isn't true. Inflammation is not the same as damage. There can be long term effects and actual damage, sure, for example long term alcoholics usually end up damaging their heart muscle, just as long term smokers damage their lungs. Short term one off inflammation due to a virus or vaccine or whatever can just be that - temporary inflammation i.e swelling with no long term effects or actual damage (unless they catch covid or a virus every year for the rest of their live or drink or smoke heavily etc). Is your arm permanently damaged because it swelled up at the vaccination site for a few days?

I find it chilling that children should be offered it to be honest.

But why is it chilling? A lot of people say pro choice, so why not offer the choice? Offered doesn't mean you need to vaccinate your children, you can decline the offer. If people talk about personal choice, then don't you think everyone should be offered the choice in the first place?

@Blubells

50% of 12-15 year olds in the UK roughly haven't taken up the vaccine. But they have the choice.

I wonder how many took the vaccine in order to be able to travel abroad?

The 50 % figure is largely due to a delayed and then chaotic rollout. Many pupils I teach wanted the vaccine, too few nurses turned up to the school, not all of them could be vaxxed and the nurses have only just come back. Some have since had Covid and are now waiting.

That 50% does not mean 50% have chosen not to have the jab.

I know hundreds of kids who have had covid

Hundreds? Really??

And if they have had covid they need to wait 12 weeks until they can get the vaccine too which will delay things further.

Ds (15) got his 2nd on Sunday. Has only had a slight sore arm for a day with both. Keeping an eye out for any other symptoms

Yeah, my 17 yo got his second one a few days ago.

And if they have had covid they need to wait 12 weeks until they can get the vaccine too which will delay things further.

I thought it was 4 weeks, not 12 @dementedpixie?

It's 28 days for adults, 12 weeks for children 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you very much JanglyBeads. I hadn't heard that.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

About 29 mins in. More children hospitalised with covid in last 3 weeks than in the whole of the first wave (March - August 2020) and this is probably old data by now, I think from seeing some scientists on twitter it's continued to go up as new data is reported.

For every professor Pagel there are a load of other professors with equally good credentials saying something completely different. She has been discredited along with other isage members like Gurdusani by other like scientists in their field. In particular her modelling predictions have mostly been wrong lately. Also they both seem to block anyone criticising them on Twitter even people just pointing out flaws in the way they're presenting data. Why is Pagel so reluctant to show her critiques? I don't really trust her now and think she has a niche bunch of followers who don't seem to accept the nuance of some situations and data.

Pagle has not been discredited. That's ridiculous. Modelling is modelling. Anyway, she doesn't do modelling. She analyses. Gurdasani also has not been discredited.

Do you mean by you? The right wing press? HART and co? U4T?

Who are the other like scientists?

And, besides which, that does not make the figures of child hospitalisation wrong. By dismissing (and attempting to get posters to disbelieve and ignore Pagel) you are suggesting that the figures are incorrect. Deflection of the highest order.

@Marynotsocontrary

And if they have had covid they need to wait 12 weeks until they can get the vaccine too which will delay things further.

I thought it was 4 weeks, not 12 @dementedpixie?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59298833.amp

It was extended to help minimise the small chance of myocarditis. It was 4 weeks but extended to 12 weeks for under 18s

Gurdusani doesn't block people who question or criticise on twitter; she blocks those who have been abusive. As is her right. Nobody deserves some of the hatred that has been directed at them, particularly from faceless 'anonymous' accounts.

Are you saying that the numbers of children hospitalised, as reported by - to use your example - Gurdusani, are incorrect?

Thanks dementedpixie. I had missed that.