Campaign to review child covid vaccination by Gt Ormond St Hospital expert

[perfectSmiles3]

Without the intent to cause panic... why is this not in the news?

There was an open letter sent to JCVI (copy of the letter is online) signed by about 15 well-regarded medical professionals and an even greater number of MPs urging the JCVI to review the current child vaccination programme.

I've also come across an interview with one of the signatories, Prof Brent Taylor, Emeritus Professor of Community Child Health, UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health discussing their concerns and the letter. I find it very unnerving listening to his words.

The JCVI never approved (or not) anything. They gave findings - they weren't even recommendations. They then said the CMOs needed to make the decision. Some may say they ducked out of the decision making . They certainly never said 12-16 year olds should not be vaccinated.

I am quite certain this letter is in their shredding pile.

There have been campaigns and letters to stop vaccination in teens and children (and adults) since the vaccines were approved.

This looks like a rehash of the letter HART sent in Dec, just with some of the more problematic names removed to try and make it look more credible and like it isn't coming from this anti-vaccine group.

www.hartgroup.org/open-letter-to-the-jcvi/

Critically important to continue reviewing the evidence regarding risks/benefits of vaccinations, don't trust this group to do it in a scientifically sound and unbiased way though.

@ollyollyoxenfree

There have been campaigns and letters to stop vaccination in teens and children (and adults) since the vaccines were approved.

This looks like a rehash of the letter HART sent in Dec, just with some of the more problematic names removed to try and make it look more credible and like it isn't coming from this anti-vaccine group.

www.hartgroup.org/open-letter-to-the-jcvi/

Critically important to continue reviewing the evidence regarding risks/benefits of vaccinations, don't trust this group to do it in a scientifically sound and unbiased way though.

I'll cut and paste my reply from another thread concerning vaccinating 5-11's as I'm really interested in why people are dismissing the opinion of the medical signatories on both this letter and the letter at the start of this thread..I don't read is as anti-vaccine at all just vaccine-cautious so I'd be grateful if people could point out to me in what way they are anti-vax??? Cut and past of my own post: "I originally posted the letter referenced above BewareTheLibrarians , i had seen it on msn and the daily express and despite being myself both pro-vaccine and def not of a right wing persuasion I was very interested in WHY it wasn't covered more wildly and likewise WHY its being dismissed as untrustworthy. I ignored fully all the MP's signatories but are you not interested why this letter has been signed by Prof Taylor ,considering his clinical work specialism of child health plus being ex-JCVI? Plus letter also signed by a former president of the Royal College of GP's, a Professor of Public Health, a Professor of Epidemiology, a Public Health Physician formerly working on infectious diseases for the WHO, a former director of the Welsh Communicable Diseases Centre, amongst others?? These are people who are well used to interpreting research papers, I don't see that they all automatically have an ulterior agenda(I agree politicians might) and all they are asking is that the JCVI reassesses the risk-benefit ratio of the vaccines in children in light of the omicron variant and further research. Why is that considered non-sensical? My teen has had their 1st vax, will get their 2nd at some point although I suspect omicron will get there first. Everyone has the right to decide on their child's behalf; to me its fairly obvious that the older your child is ,the balance is more likely to tip in favour of the vaccine but the younger they are it is more likely to tip the other way. We should all have access to info that allows us to make an informed decision and I don't understand this blind belief that the vaccines should never be questioned ."

At one point he says something like "the case for vaccination for children is now weaker because omicron is less severe than delta".
Which is kind of silly because one of the main reasons omicron is causing so much less serious illness is because so many people are vaccinated!!!

No that's wrong. Omicron is intrinsically milder and doesn't affect the lungs as badly as previous variants.

So it's a big load of bollocks then?

Off topic, but l just want to add the name Ted to that phrase. As in Dougal saying to Father Ted, ‘So it’s a big load of bollocks then Ted?’

Did I not read something the other day about an increase in diabetes in children that have had covid?

Makes it not seem such a mild virus for children if it can have a lifelong effect on them

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

So it's a big load of bollocks then?

Off topic, but l just want to add the name Ted to that phrase. As in Dougal saying to Father Ted, ‘So it’s a big load of bollocks then Ted?’

😆

Anything that esther mcvey put her name to is only fit for the bin.

@s1h2o3na But no one is saying that the vaccines shouldn’t be questioned. My point (which no one has been able to answer) is why so much focus and publicity on the potential small side effects of the vaccine in the media, (you said you’d seen it on msn and Daily Express) and next to none on the potential side effects of covid in children - like PIMS, long covid, organ damage, diabetes? Why do this group continue to get publicity above any others? What do they gain by downplaying illness in children?

Also, I’m not sure how anyone could consider the language of that letter measured. It’s hyperbolic, which immediately makes me question why they’re having to make it so emotive. Answer: It’s not so it appeals to scientists, it’s so it appeals to parents.

And also again - this letter only “works” if they seriously believe omicron is the final version of the virus. Would epidemiologists really believe that, and take a gamble on children's health?

I’d be grateful if people could point out to me in what way they are anti vaxx?

That’s already been answered on this thread @s1h2o3na - click here:

mobile.twitter.com/karamballes/status/1480162284538318848

As I said @s1h2o3na

It's really important to continue reviewing the evidence to make sure vaccination is still in the best interests of the groups it's being offered to, based on the most up to date findings and current context. If it becomes clear that vaccination is not beneficial for teens and children, I'll wholeheartedly support a campaign to pause/stop the rollout.

HOWEVER this looks like a rehash of the letter HART sent in Dec, just with some of the more problematic names removed to try and make it look more credible and like it isn't coming from this anti-vaccine group.

www.hartgroup.org/open-letter-to-the-jcvi/

It does not provide compelling evidence (and misquotes a recent paper) that the risks of vaccination outweigh the benefits. That's the issue with it, along with many of people who have signed it.

Have they considered the recent data on the hospitalisation of small children with Omicron? The chart (where the graph for hospitalisations of 0-5 year olds is near vertical) is at 29 minutes.

Prof Pagel says the rates of hospitalisation for small children who have covid has 'gone through the roof' recently, and that this has been seen in many other countries and is markedly different to other points in the pandemic when levels of infection were as high.

If we were keeping infections low, if schools were safer etc then maybe there wouldn't be much of a case for vaccinating children. But given it's utterly rife and it seems a near inevitability that children in school will catch it, then I think parents should be given the choice to do what they think is best for the small children whose health they know best (which no one else pontificating know the first thing about).

I have good reasons to want my children vaccinated. I am being denied that choice, I can't even pay to have it done privately, despite the covid vaccination being just as 'safe' IMO as many other childhood vaccines which ARE available.

Other parents may make other decisions, that's their choice, but I'm being denied a choice here because of people who know fuck all about my children and about why I want access to this vaccine. Even those children designated CV and CEV aren't being given vaccines in this country at the moment even though experts have decided they should have it.

@BewareTheLibrarians

And if the whole thing is based on Omicron being milder, then it means they think that Omicron is the last variant that’s going to come out. They can’t honestly be that stupid, can they?

They are unfortunately.

You can describe them as a bunch of self-serving ignorant little troglodytes.

@Blubells

*At one point he says something like "the case for vaccination for children is now weaker because omicron is less severe than delta". Which is kind of silly because one of the main reasons omicron is causing so much less serious illness is because so many people are vaccinated!!!*

No that's wrong. Omicron is intrinsically milder and doesn't affect the lungs as badly as previous variants.

You are making the mistake of thinking Covid 19 only impacts the lungs in a major way.

This is not correct.

We have yet to see any organ that cannot be damaged by a covid infection due to the clotting problems it causes.

I'm a very pro vaccine, vaccine nurse and really struggled with whether or not to give my 12 yo the vaccine.

The JCVI said some weeks ago that the benefits are marginal compared with the risk of side effects although this was widely misreported at the time.

Essentially we are vaccinating children who are unlikely to be unwell with covid to protect the population as a whole. The aim, to reduce serious illness and death amongst older people overall is well intentioned. It's not so good when you look at risks to individual children.

In the end DD had her first jab, mainly to reduce the disruption to her education. Due to a (very mild) dose of covid over the holidays she isn't able to have her second until March and so I am watching developments here.

It's important to me that these discussions can happen and that the medics are not dismissed as antivaxxers.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

Have they considered the recent data on the hospitalisation of small children with Omicron? The chart (where the graph for hospitalisations of 0-5 year olds is near vertical) is at 29 minutes.

Prof Pagel says the rates of hospitalisation for small children who have covid has 'gone through the roof' recently, and that this has been seen in many other countries and is markedly different to other points in the pandemic when levels of infection were as high.

If we were keeping infections low, if schools were safer etc then maybe there wouldn't be much of a case for vaccinating children. But given it's utterly rife and it seems a near inevitability that children in school will catch it, then I think parents should be given the choice to do what they think is best for the small children whose health they know best (which no one else pontificating know the first thing about).

I have good reasons to want my children vaccinated. I am being denied that choice, I can't even pay to have it done privately, despite the covid vaccination being just as 'safe' IMO as many other childhood vaccines which ARE available.

Other parents may make other decisions, that's their choice, but I'm being denied a choice here because of people who know fuck all about my children and about why I want access to this vaccine. Even those children designated CV and CEV aren't being given vaccines in this country at the moment even though experts have decided they should have it.

What are the actual numbers of those under 14 in hospital because of Covid? I can't find them.

To put it into perspective though, as sad as any death is, the death rate of those under 14 since the whole Covid thing started is 44. I'd imagine a number of those will of had some form of comorbidity.

For some unknown reason the ONS lump the 15-18 year olds in with people up to 44. so the figures of those children are a bit of an unknown. However I'd be willing to bet that Young Adults 15-18 in that group make up a tiny proportion.

twitter.com/tigressellie/status/1480577211375759360?s=21

Figures here (England only) - although why do you want a cut off at 14?

"England Child Covid Admissions 10th January

Child Covid total Hospital Admissions rise to 14,890 a rise of 119 children admitted overnight

0-5 7575 +70
6-17 7315 +49

Child Covid Admissions 13,897 in 421 days"

Well, well...

And this is exactly why kids shouldn't be getting vaccinated.

@Mojoj

And this is exactly why kids shouldn't be getting vaccinated.

What is?

Also @Youarefakenews ,
To put it into perspective though, as sad as any death is, the death rate of those under 14 since the whole Covid thing started is 44. I'd imagine a number of those will of had some form of comorbidity

There was 54 up to 14/12 and at least two more since then.

Should the parents of children with eg diabetes expect them to die then?

fakenews, I won't comment on the irony of your username...but where are you getting your figures from?

A direct comparison between myocarditis rates after infection and vaccination has been carried out by a group based at Oxford University. It does appear to be the case that the risk:benefit ratio is more finely balanced for males < 40. See graphs in linked preprint, especially with respect to 2nd Moderna dose.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v1.full.pdf

I should add my booster was Moderna. I'm not anti-vax. The benefits outweigh the risks for oldies like me.

Pretty sure our 12-17 year olds only get Pfizer.