Campaign to review child covid vaccination by Gt Ormond St Hospital expert

[perfectSmiles3]

Without the intent to cause panic... why is this not in the news?

There was an open letter sent to JCVI (copy of the letter is online) signed by about 15 well-regarded medical professionals and an even greater number of MPs urging the JCVI to review the current child vaccination programme.

I've also come across an interview with one of the signatories, Prof Brent Taylor, Emeritus Professor of Community Child Health, UCL Great Ormond Street Institute of Child Health discussing their concerns and the letter. I find it very unnerving listening to his words.

I’m really glad there is call for a review.

We need to understand if the vaccine risk for young people is higher than covid. It is clear that longer term the vaccines aren’t going to prevent transmission much so I don’t understand the school argument.

I appreciate I’m not an expert. I am a confused parent, however!

One of biggest concerns is the unknown effects on menstrual cycles given many teens are still developing in this aspect

MPs getting involved in medical stuff when they are not medics is pretty fricking sinister really. Thinking that people will trust their judgement because of their position of power. Urgh.

It is clear that longer term the vaccines aren’t going to prevent transmission much so I don’t understand the school argument.

My thinking on this is that they will stop isolation for positive cases, or contacts at some point, and if vaccination reduces chance of being actually ill, then it will mean less time off school. Therefore reduced impact on education.

What really pisses me off about this entire situation is that thanks to this moral-free bunch, the “myocarditis after vaccination” gets so much attention, news and coverage, yet “myocarditis after covid” is just crickets. No one talks about it in the news. You never hear (apart from the odd 2 minutes here and there) about kids dealing with post covid complications. Yet those far outweigh the side effects of the vaccine in number and severity, but you’d never know.

This bunch don’t need to be telling the truth, they just need to keep filling up the airwaves with this crap, and bingo, they get all the oxygen.

This bunch don’t need to be telling the truth, they just need to keep filling up the airwaves with this crap, and bingo, they get all the oxygen.

Just further corruption and incompetence from this government really. They are allowing the hand right ERG MPs to run the country.

Also aren’t risks of myocarditis after second dose massively reduced by increasing gap to 12 weeks which is what U.K. is doing for 12-15 year olds. Other countries are giving dose after three weeks which is probably where those figures are coming from.

@Thievesoil It’s precisely for the benefit of confused parents like you that it would be so helpful for there to be a 50/50 split in the information available. I can imagine how hard it is when the information is skewed like this.

This HART/U4T group have some much (unethically gotten) reach, that a lot of parents are mostly only hearing one side of the story.

For e.g., when did you last hear a story about PIMS in the news or on your social media feed? Have you seen any info with the symptoms of long covid? Would you know what to do if your child had mild covid then developed red eyes and cracked lips after getting better? Have you seen stories of a child suffering with long covid over a year? Have you seen an explanation of organ damage caused by covid in children?

I’m going to guess “no”.

Have you seen the narrative on the news or social media that covid is mild for children? That children hospitalised with covid are “with” not “of”? That the vaccines carry more risk?

I’m going to guess “yes, a fuckton.”

I’m automatically against anything Esther Mcvey thinks is a good idea, I need nothing else to convince me this is rubbish.

@BewareTheLibrarians

What really pisses me off about this entire situation is that thanks to this moral-free bunch, the “myocarditis after vaccination” gets so much attention, news and coverage, yet “myocarditis after covid” is just crickets. No one talks about it in the news. You never hear (apart from the odd 2 minutes here and there) about kids dealing with post covid complications. Yet those far outweigh the side effects of the vaccine in number and severity, but you’d never know.

This bunch don’t need to be telling the truth, they just need to keep filling up the airwaves with this crap, and bingo, they get all the oxygen.

Exactly. A child I know of is suffering from myocarditis after a covid infection, he's now in and out of hospital, very very sick. It's just so sad that he got it before he could have a vaccine.

Has anyone else done a search for the OP's previous posts? There's one where she queries the need for pregnant women to get vaccinated and another where she reveals (in Autumn 2021) that her whole family are unvaccinated.

beware to be honest, the official line has bothered me more. Yes it’s right to say that vaccines carry less risk than covid for most but that isn’t the case in the young - I don’t think. So yes I’m confused. My understanding is that a double vaccine of moderna would possibly now be riskier for a teenage boy - but I don’t know for sure as the data isn’t really published that way.

I would prefer if the official line was more nuanced as I would trust it more. For example, it’s unnerving that menstrual side effects are minimised.

My kids all sailed through covid so again, surely that should be taken into account

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

MPs getting involved in medical stuff when they are not medics is pretty fricking sinister really. Thinking that people will trust their judgement because of their position of power. Urgh.

But we can all trust Boris and those people he’s just given honours to?

Strange how people are only willing to listen when it’s a message they want to hear.

I do get it it though - it’s not easy when that message is that vaccinating your kids may not have been the best thing to do after all.

The argument for vaccination was never that strong in the first place and was only green lit when new info came to light, after being turned down originally by the jcvi. Surely we should similarly re-assess it now in the light of what we know about omicron? Be a strange scientist who would argue against taking the latest evidence into account.

@LilyPond2

Has anyone else done a search for the OP's previous posts? There's one where she queries the need for pregnant women to get vaccinated and another where she reveals (in Autumn 2021) that her whole family are unvaccinated.

Congratulations on being able to use search. The fact that the op has ever queried the coved vaccines before clearly means we should all disregard her opinion, or better yet let’s point at her and shout ‘witch’.

@Thievesoil and what about the kids who weren’t ok with covid? I have one, it’s horrible. Having to deal with his ongoing illness and pain (coming up for 22 months now) while being told it’s either not real or not important. Vaccine induced myocarditis in the vast majority of cases resolves with needing treatment. Covid induced damage, well, 22 months and counting. Yay. But again, not your fault that you don’t know this. Why these cases don’t get the same attention remains a mystery.

@Notthemessiah the vaccine was never “turned down” by the JCVI. Look, more dodgy reporting! They said the benefits of the vaccine outweighed the risks. They overstated potential risks while not considering PIMS and long covid (of which there are more cases than vaccine damage.) Who knows why? If it’s not ok, why was it approved by the MHRA (who check the safety) and the not recommended by the JCVI (who are responsible for the rollout?

Part of the JCVI’s decision not to initially roll out the vaccine to 12-15s was “the vaccination programme will take time away from lessons, and some side effects may cause children to miss school.” Is that about vaccine safety?

I'm all for keeping policies under review as new information comes to light, but the signatories to this letter have clearly already decided what they think the outcome should be. For example, they refer to "robust and durable natural immunity" despite the evidence from South Africa suggesting that Omicron is very good at reinfecting those previously infected with Delta. And how can anyone claim to know whether Omicron infection confers "durable" immunity when the Omicron variant only came to the attention of the world less than 3 months ago??

[quote BewareTheLibrarians]@Thievesoil and what about the kids who weren’t ok with covid? I have one, it’s horrible. Having to deal with his ongoing illness and pain (coming up for 22 months now) while being told it’s either not real or not important. Vaccine induced myocarditis in the vast majority of cases resolves with needing treatment. Covid induced damage, well, 22 months and counting. Yay. But again, not your fault that you don’t know this. Why these cases don’t get the same attention remains a mystery.

@Notthemessiah the vaccine was never “turned down” by the JCVI. Look, more dodgy reporting! They said the benefits of the vaccine outweighed the risks. They overstated potential risks while not considering PIMS and long covid (of which there are more cases than vaccine damage.) Who knows why? If it’s not ok, why was it approved by the MHRA (who check the safety) and the not recommended by the JCVI (who are responsible for the rollout?

Part of the JCVI’s decision not to initially roll out the vaccine to 12-15s was “the vaccination programme will take time away from lessons, and some side effects may cause children to miss school.” Is that about vaccine safety?[/quote]
Sorry but that’s just pedantry. The jcvi didn’t originally approve it for children and then changed their minds after new evidence came to light. No reason why they shouldn’t consider doing the same with what they know now.

But it’s factual pedantry

Obviously the new evidence was positive, and allayed their fears that the risk from the vaccine was higher, and convinced them that the risk from covid was higher. So clearly evidence was strong.

I don't necessarily think this is without merit. I am the parent of a child who had a severe reaction to a flu vaccine and developed an autoimmune condition called ITP. He had zero platelets, was bleeding from the nose and mouth and into his skin and a bump on the head could very easily have killed him. It took a year for his platelets to go back to normal.

Prior to this I was wholeheartedly provaccination. Now, I am more hesitant. My kids have had their covid vaccines but my now 13 year old (10 when he had the flu jab reaction) has only had one vaccine and will not have the second for several months. He has also had covid. It was an evening of feeling dizzy for him.

Like in everything, fundamentalism is dangerous. There is nuance in every situation. If it happens to your child it's devastating.

@Teenylittlefella I’m sorry to hear about your ds, that must have been terrifying. Good to hear that he’s feeling better but I can imagine the worry doesn’t go away that quickly for you.

Completely agree that fundamentalism is so dangerous, and one of the reasons I’m so against the HART group types behind this letter. They would have people believe that there’s no risk to children from covid, when I know from my son that’s not the case. Most kids are lucky like your son, but some like mine have complications for a long time (and we don’t yet know if he’ll ever get better) yet this isn’t widely known and not enough awareness is raised.

I’d feel the same about anyone saying any vaccine was 100% risk free and minimising the experience your son has had too.

Congratulations on being able to use search. The fact that the op has ever queried the coved vaccines before clearly means we should all disregard her opinion, or better yet let’s point at her and shout ‘witch’.
The OP has started a thread in which she purports to be concerned specifically about child Covid vaccination. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that the OP is coming at this from a position of being anti-Covid vaccination generally, even in groups who definitely are vulnerable such as pregnant women.

I can't be doing with a joint venture between Esther McVey, Sammy Wilson and Toby Young. It's their right to say it and my right to dismiss it as partisan bollocks.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

I can't be doing with a joint venture between Esther McVey, Sammy Wilson and Toby Young. It's their right to say it and my right to dismiss it as partisan bollocks.

It isn't any of them saying that you should not vaccinate children. The signers of the above petition are asking for experts in Childhood illnesses to look at the pro's and con's and report back.

The collection of MPs is not a group I'd usually support so I'll ignore this

@LilyPond2

Congratulations on being able to use search. The fact that the op has ever queried the coved vaccines before clearly means we should all disregard her opinion, or better yet let’s point at her and shout ‘witch’. The OP has started a thread in which she purports to be concerned specifically about child Covid vaccination. It's perfectly reasonable to point out that the OP is coming at this from a position of being anti-Covid vaccination generally, even in groups who definitely are vulnerable such as pregnant women.

No, the OP started a thread but never specified that she was concerned only with child vaccination, it's just that this is what this particular piece of news happens to be about.

Besides it's not really a stretch or likely to be a massive surprise to anyone that she might have not been 100% behind the vaccination program in the past. I don't think it really needed you to Agatha Christie it in the background and then present it like some kind of 'gotcha' (and yes, the definite implication was that we should therefore just disregard her).

Any letter signed by the likes of Sammy Wilson, Desmond Swayne and Lord Moonie is bound to be a whole heap of disingenuous bollocks. These people are stupid and dangerous.