that is one brave doctor

[MrsLargeEmbodied]

to speak about not having the vaccination
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/08/nhs-doctor-challenges-sajid-javid-over-covid-vaccination-rules

he has had a lot of support

They think 1,000 staff will be gone from londons king college trust, dread to think how many from the rest of the country, get the feeling the Guardian are very worried about potential collapse of the NHS from the mandate. www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/09/london-hospital-boss-says-he-may-lose-1000-staff-over-covid-vaccine-mandate

What's the argument for mandatory vaccination now that we know omicron escapes both natural and vaccine induced immunity? Considering that even creator of Astra-Zeneca agrees that boosting everyone every 6 months isn't feasible, where's logic in that?

Vaccines still help reduce serious illness and death.

If everyone had the view of the doctor the current death rate would be sky high and hospitals would be completely overwhelmed.

I think going forward the combination of vaccination plus infection has shown to be most effective. So for most of us we don’t need to keep getting boosted. (The vulnerable most likely will).
Vaccines have been shown to stimulate a long lasting t-cell response. So whilst antibodies wane. you will have this long lasting t-cell response.

@Delatron

Vaccines still help reduce serious illness and death.

If everyone had the view of the doctor the current death rate would be sky high and hospitals would be completely overwhelmed.

I think going forward the combination of vaccination plus infection has shown to be most effective. So for most of us we don’t need to keep getting boosted. (The vulnerable most likely will).
Vaccines have been shown to stimulate a long lasting t-cell response. So whilst antibodies wane. you will have this long lasting t-cell response.

Thousands in the NHS have the view of the doctor as reported by the very alarmed Guardian. Mums to be are going to be placed in a lot of danger having all midwives sacked from one NHS service in a few weeks time, every midwife in that unit refusing. Going forward has to be stopping mandates, call them all selfish but it’s not changing the fact pregnant women are in trouble because them called selfish are going to be gone with who to replace them? There’s a staffing crisis in nhs midwifery.

proof of antibody is an excellent way out

[quote Seethefairfromtheair]They think 1,000 staff will be gone from londons king college trust, dread to think how many from the rest of the country, get the feeling the Guardian are very worried about potential collapse of the NHS from the mandate. www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/09/london-hospital-boss-says-he-may-lose-1000-staff-over-covid-vaccine-mandate[/quote]

So bad if it goes ahead

The doc isn’t alone & the guardian are reporting this, I’m sure the sky thing has helped make it easier for other NHS staff to speak out, anti body tests, new treatments cutting the risk of hospitalisation, even the ex head of the vaccine task force openly stating we won’t be needing to vax everyone. We have a few weeks to tell our MPs the NHS mandate is going to cause more harm than good.

[quote OrangeShark27]@FflosFfantastig he said they give less than 8 weeks reduction in transmission. He hasn't had one and won't be getting one. He pretty much said vaccination was pointless

He did not say he supported people's right to free choice, he didn't actually talk about choice he talked about himself not having a vaccine, and refusing to get one for some unknown reason. Its clearly anti-vacc. Hes hardly encouraged people to get vaccinated has he?

If you support free chiice, responsibly you could talk about the benefits of vaccination, the safety of vaccination and encourage people to get vaccinated whilst still supporting their right to make that informed choice. Hes basically just said I don't want a vaccine[/quote]
He said he does not want a vaccine and should not lose his job because of it. A job he has been doing quite adequately throughout the pandemic. Presumably when we didn't even have vaccines. It is a pro choice viewpoint. He does not want his ability to earn money removed as punishment because he made a different choice to others and believes he should be able to make decisions concerning his own body. That's a very moderate viewpoint actually. Believing in choice is not the viewpoint of a radical person. Believing people should be forced into having an injection is a radical viewpoint by comparison.

He said the vaccines reduced transmission for a period of time. That's not saying they aren't useful. Quite the opposite. It means they're useful for at least 8 weeks! All good.

The piece is just being twisted in order to label someone. Labelling is becoming the norm. Pro choice = 'anti vaxx'. Not useful and actually not very grown up.

Did he explain why most of those in ICU haven't been vaccinated and taking up space for those who have been and needing other medical treatment?

@TalkToTheHand123

Did he explain why most of those in ICU haven't been vaccinated and taking up space for those who have been and needing other medical treatment?

Will you be there to explain why mums to be are in the ICU taking up space for not having adequate access to a midwife? 40 midwives in 1 service & they say that’s all their midwives in that NHS service refusing the jab, how many more across the country? A young portsmouth mum has died from mistakes, stretch them even more with this & more beautiful mums to be dead.

In fairness, many hospitalised Covid cases are already pregnant women who are reading anti-vax rubbish on websites like MN instead of listening to gynaecologists.

@Chinzia
Could you clarify what you mean by 40 midwives in one service?
40 midwives in one hospital? Shift? Health authority? And what? Unvaccinated?
A link would be useful.

[quote PAFMO]@Chinzia
Could you clarify what you mean by 40 midwives in one service?
40 midwives in one hospital? Shift? Health authority? And what? Unvaccinated?
A link would be useful.[/quote]
The guardian, TUC don’t want it, NHS bosses worried they will have to close the unit where 40 midwives are refusing. 40, got to be a City & a large one, ive wrote to our MP, this mandate is dangerous. www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/07/ministers-urged-to-delay-mandatory-covid-jabs-for-nhs-staff-in-england

@soredust

I got the impression that his colleagues were cringing. I bet a lot of eye rolling goes on behind his back.

Funny, I got the opposite impression that his colleagues (at least the nurses who were originally very quiet when SJ asked them what they thought) were relieved that he spoke up as someone in a higher position that demands more respect. It was harder for SJ to look down on him and pooh-pooh his opinion as someone medically trained.

If only SJ was a bit more clued up, he should have asked this anaesthetist why he disagrees with the British Society for Immunology, which has stated that the best protection for those who have had Covid-19 is to be vaccinated.

Bloody hell how can 40 midwives in one service refuse to be vaccinated? That's pretty terrifying.

@dittymcdit

Bloody hell how can 40 midwives in one service refuse to be vaccinated? That's pretty terrifying.

I find it more terrifying that our daughters/sisters/friends are going to be put in danger, they don’t have the staff to cover this? There’s no way it’s just 40, that’s just 1 NHS service, nothing will convince me mandates are going to save more people, it’s going to be grim.

I agree it’s even more concerning they might have to leave.

@dittymcdit

Bloody hell how can 40 midwives in one service refuse to be vaccinated? That's pretty terrifying.

It is probably explained by a number of reports over the years, from many different western countries, that many midwives prioritise good counselling above scientific knowledge.

I notice the ones disliking the doctor on this thread are not calling for his resignation right now? The midwives refusing, no posts demanding these dangerous individuals leave the service immediately, if they were such a threat being unvaccinated you would expect to see this?

@Chinzia

I notice the ones disliking the doctor on this thread are not calling for his resignation right now? The midwives refusing, no posts demanding these dangerous individuals leave the service immediately, if they were such a threat being unvaccinated you would expect to see this?

No need to call for anything. They'll be sacked when it's put in place if they still refuse to be vaccinated.

Of course most will back down as they have mortgages and families.

I think he is fantastic. So glad he has spoken out I hope him speaking out will help make a difference to this being made mandatory.

*No need to call for anything. They'll be sacked when it's put in place if they still refuse to be vaccinated.

Of course most will back down as they have mortgages and families.*

I'm not so sure, lots of midwifes were already planning to leave before the mandate citing understaffing as the main reason. I imagine if even 5% decide to leave because of the mandatory vaccine it will put a tipping point for the rest.

www.rcm.org.uk/media-releases/2021/september/rcm-warns-of-midwife-exodus-as-maternity-staffing-crisis-grows/

It’s a risky strategy

I’m surprised England is pursuing this but not Scotland and Wales (if I’ve heard news correctly)

It will be a tipping point*

End of March sacking starts, 11 weeks away. if anyone is serious about them being a threat to patients then calls to remove them should be now not happily wait for over 2 months for this to happen. no one on this thread believes they are or they would be posting they need to be rid of now.