Sajid javid

[Worried456776]

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224

Well done to this docter for standing up for himself.

By February the situation will be different again

Likely fewer restrictions, plan b over, and we’ll see HCP leave when risks feel lower and cases too

The landscape will be even more at odds with a severe policy

Good for the doctor.

@newusername2009 and the BMJ have been questioning the trials www.totalhealth.co.uk/blog/bmj-reports-covid-19-vaccine-trial-whistleblower

I think we can't afford to lose nhs staff. We getting the army in to help. I would delay the mandatory vaccine until the summer. This is very bad timing.

[quote nojudgementhere]@Milkyaqua - What an odd comment. The only view he expressed was that he already has natural immunity and so isn't choosing to take a vaccine. Why that would give you 'the willies' I don't know!

Now, if he was coming out with crazy, alarming statements like, 'The Unvaccinated should not get treatment' or 'Vaccines should be mandatory for everyone' then I'd understand your fears a little more.[/quote]
So he is (perhaps) somewhat protected from infection, but as an unvaccinated person he is at greater risk of passing on any infection he may pick up to his vulnerable patients.

Someone who is so anti-science to think that that is appropriate, would not be putting my unconscious, thanks very much.

@Bananarice

I think we can't afford to lose nhs staff. We getting the army in to help. I would delay the mandatory vaccine until the summer. This is very bad timing.

Oh so it’s ok to delay it because we need them, then when it quietens down say ‘thanks for helping us but you are still loosing your job’.

That’s a disgusting attitude to have.

So he is (perhaps) somewhat protected from infection, but as an unvaccinated person he is at greater risk of passing on any infection he may pick up to his vulnerable patients

Not so, he and all AHP are regularly tested, regardless of vaccine status, plus in any procedure, they'll be wearing PPE.

The bigger issue is what happens when he and others leave the NHS, less students want to become medic's and folk need hospitalisation?

My daughter recently qualified, already several students have decided not to join the NHS (because of this policy) and do something else, plenty of jobs out there for medical graduates.
She also did care work as a student, carers leaving too.

@BertieQueen Very true.

The doctor is correct, the science isn’t compelling enough for him to lose his job.
If it were mandatory testing, understandable

[quote howdiditcometothis666]@newusername2009 and the BMJ have been questioning the trials www.totalhealth.co.uk/blog/bmj-reports-covid-19-vaccine-trial-whistleblower[/quote]
Oh dear. This isn’t a surprise, sadly.

Facebook tried to censor that information coming out!!

If SJ has any sense he will backtrack on this policy. It’s only going to look worse over time as things become even clearer.

Like the doctor said, he’s going to have to inject NHS staff every month to be assured of ‘immunity’ given protection is basically gone after 2 months. That just isn’t going to happen, so fast forward a few months, you’ve just fired 90,000 people and the whole of the NHS has waned vaccines anyway..,..it couldn’t be more ridiculously wrong,

[quote howdiditcometothis666]**@OchonAgusOchonOh* ^You do know polio and measles have not been eradicated? And that no vaccine is 100% effective in preventing transmission

You do know polio is not eradicated in some countries because of vaccine induced polio strains? It was stated recently some are in the ridiculous situation of having to vaccinate against vaccine polio. In other countries vaccine polio is running at a higher rate than wild polio.

This is because poor countries are having to use the cheaper polio vaccines. Maybe a lesson should be taken from that with regards poor countries and the lack of Covid vax for their vulnerable instead of holding out our bowls to the Pfizer CEO saying please sir can we have some more and pay you shit loads of money for it?![/quote]
I was responding to a poster who stated: Yes expect that this covid vaccine isn’t a proper vaccine is it?

It doesn’t and never will make covid disappeared unlike, polio, measles etc….

I 100% agree with you regarding vaccines and poorer countries. Focusing on our own little patch is, quite aside from being morally dubious, short sighted from our own perspective as we live in a connected world.

The natural immunity one was tested at the start but didn't work hence the lockdowns.

Well that was because there wasn’t much natural immunity was there?

That isn’t the case now!

I'm very pro vaccine generally and have had both jabs plus booster. However, I don't think I would accept a 4th. We simply cannot keep using up all the vaccines in the Western world and denying other, poorer, coutries their chance to vaccinate their own populations. The reason we are in this mess with Omicrom is that we didn't allow vaccines to be distributed fairly to Africa. If we keep hogging the vaccines, the next new mutation will emerge quickly and god forbid it could have a higher mortality rate.

@TalkToTheHand123

The natural immunity one was tested at the start but didn't work hence the lockdowns.

Has science completely changed since Feb 2020, you know that raft of decades of literature about how the human immune system works and how it fights off disease and remembers all just wiped out in 2020?

@Flyonawalk

Some comments on this thread are disturbing. The doctor who spoke (in a measured way and from a position of scientific knowledge) is being discredited because posters don’t like what he said. Why jump to unpleasant conclusions about his character?

The embarrassed silence from some of the other staff when Javid spoke to them could suggest that they are also against mandatory vaccination. I know plenty of medics who believe ‘the science’ does not support blanket vaccination.

I’m in healthcare. I’ve not had it. The same for some of my colleagues. I’ve not been ill. Meanwhile my triple vaxxed colleagues are constantly off ill, and look dreadful.

@Felixthefish

I'm very pro vaccine generally and have had both jabs plus booster. However, I don't think I would accept a 4th. We simply cannot keep using up all the vaccines in the Western world and denying other, poorer, coutries their chance to vaccinate their own populations. The reason we are in this mess with Omicrom is that we didn't allow vaccines to be distributed fairly to Africa. If we keep hogging the vaccines, the next new mutation will emerge quickly and god forbid it could have a higher mortality rate.

Absolutely. I also think it is a huge concern that in the UK we are diverting such vast sums of money and resources from other areas of healthcare to keep vaccinating people with very low risks from Covid.

Absolutely. I also think it is a huge concern that in the UK we are diverting such vast sums of money and resources from other areas of healthcare to keep vaccinating people with very low risks from Covid

I agree.

The nhs was just about set up to cope with winter flu pressure. That, alongside the flu vaccination programme helped keep numbers in check.

Now I think we need something similar for covid. The nhs clearly needs to expand to deal with covid pressures which are likely to be regular (although time will tell), coupled with a sensible vaccination programme that targets some of the population but not all.

As it is, I don’t want my booster (I’m not due one yet anyway), and am in two minds about it tbh.

Another medical organisation Royal College of GPS opposed to mandatory vaccines for NHS www.rcgp.org.uk/about-us/news/2021/november/opposition-mandatory-vaccination-nhs-workers.aspx

[quote GirlInACountrySong]@EmmaH2022 whats the question?[/quote]
The vaccine doesn't stop you spreading so there is no risk to his patients or wider society if he chooses no to get vaccinated. He is younger than 70 and not obese he has close to zero risk of dying from covid.

The average mortality age of covid is 83.

I have not read the whole thread as it is just a rehash of the same old arguments. But in case it hasn't been posted, the Dr appears to be the owner of this clinic

www.thebreathlessnessclinic.com/about-me

and is a proponent of "functional medicine".

@Alexandra2001

If Javid sticks to his plans, approx 73000 NHS medical staff will leave in less than 3 months time, that will cause the NHS to collapse completely - though it looks like it has already.

The damage to us all will be huge, far more than allowing folk to choose for themselves, bare in mind, vaccines don't stop transmission as he pointed out.

@alexandra2001 Are you NHS What can we do to support you. It feels hideously hypocritical that we were out there clapping and yet stand by now and do nothing. I feel so helpless and want to do something.

On another note, it struck me that a radio report was concerned they had 80,000 absences last week. 50 percent covid related.
So if we sack that many and more staff , then add in absences, how do they think the NHS is going to cope?

@ClaudineClare

I have not read the whole thread as it is just a rehash of the same old arguments. But in case it hasn't been posted, the Dr appears to be the owner of this clinic

www.thebreathlessnessclinic.com/about-me

and is a proponent of "functional medicine".

"My interest lies in the “why” of human well-being: why do we get sick, what makes us better, what optimises our health for the long-term? "

Sounds sensible to me. Why wouldn't we want to understand what constitutes optimal health, rather than contstantly firefighting illness and living suboptimally with disease that is lifestyle based?